Scooter survey

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michael gill
Posts: 391
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:28 am
Location: lakewood

Re: Scooter survey

Postby michael gill » Thu Feb 02, 2023 7:18 pm

Thanks for driving carefully and paying attention at tthe crosswalks, Mark.

Cars are really dangerous to everyone around them.


Richard Baker
Posts: 349
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:06 am

Re: Scooter survey

Postby Richard Baker » Fri Feb 03, 2023 12:24 am

[quote="Mark Kindt"]The January 2nd & 9th issue of [i]The New Yorker[/i] published a lengthy essay on e-bikes in that City. It neglected almost any discussion of safety and mostly addressed availability and cost and utility and enjoyment.

As I watch e-scooters or e-bikes shoot down Detroit from my office window in January, clearly there is utility for those who choose to ride, even necessity, and probably fun during the Winter.

Unlike cars and motorcycles, personal mobility devices seem free of licensing, titling, registration, and insurance requirements. Nor do I suggest here that that should be the case.

Obviously, we will have to adapt to them with a new kind of vigilance.

Richard's point about inattention blindness speaks to me.

In many ways, I am still "blind" to those riding these scooters. I can brake for pedestrians in a cross-walk, but a scooter rider entering a cross-walk at speed will be harder to break for. Runners are much slower, even when they are in the street.

Much of this is about what we are already used to.[/quote]

Mark,
The problem with drivers adapting scooter and e bikes is that they are not common and you can't change the way our brain perceives what it sees. Our brain only sees about 90 frames per second and disregards most of the frames because it would be a blur if it processed everything our eyes see. When we are driving in our neighborhoods it requires very little mental effort. However, if we are on a trip driving on winding road or in a new city, we become mentally tired. The reason we not tired driving in our neighborhood, our brain fills in the frames of what it expects; thus, it may not see a e-scooter, e-bike or motorcycle, although it is in plain sight.

Another study determined that drivers determining distance and speed found that when a driver is at an intersection, normally the driver looks left and right, only using one eye, the other is blocked by their nose. The driver judges the distance of the vehicle by the changes in the size and the expectation they are at the normal speed of traffic on that road. Since motorcycles, e-scooters or e-bikes size are much smaller, they appear to be at greater distance, or the change in their size is difficult to judge their speed.
Add to ride like your invisible; especially in your own neighborhood, and never speed through intersections of any kind.

It the City of Lakewood was serious, they would offer rider safety training classes, in schools, and for the adults in the community center for e-scooters, e-bikes safety, and bicycles riders.


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Jim O'Bryan
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Re: Scooter survey

Postby Jim O'Bryan » Fri Feb 03, 2023 9:10 am

Questions for all.

1) Where is your phone when you drive?

2) Did you try a scooter while they were here?

.


Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident

"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg

"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
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Amy Martin
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Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:30 am

Re: Scooter survey

Postby Amy Martin » Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:09 am

Likewise, Questions for Mayor George and City Hall:

1. How much money is Lakewood receiving from the Scooter/E Bike companies in fees, etc., and how is this money being allocated?

2. Will there be transparency on the survey and will the results be made public?

3. Will the Lakewood Police Department enforce current rules/ordinances regarding the operation of these vehicles?


michael gill
Posts: 391
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:28 am
Location: lakewood

Re: Scooter survey

Postby michael gill » Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:32 am

Gov. Mike Dewine was in town yesterday, talking about a bunch of money the state will invest in school security, including a grant to Lakewood City Schools. That is because gun violence is a real threat. Should they spend the money teaching the kids how to avoid the bullets?

Cars are dangerous. They are steel boxes that weigh thousands of pounds, and a person needs almost no skill--beyond answering some questions on a test (which they can promptly forget) and remembering to stop at stop signs and use a turn signal during a trial run--almost no skill at all to make one of those things go 35 or 50 or 100 miles an hour.

To Amy's questions:

I asked about the money and learned that the city collected ... wait for it ... about $900 during the trial run. I responded that at that rate, I hope the scooter companies are paying for the striping of those parking docks. But what I take from this is that it is not about the money. Meanwhile, how much does the city collect from the use of cars in the city? We pay gas tax. That goes to ODOT. They spend it on highways, especially projects that have for decades been damaging to Lakewood. We pay for license plates ... those fees also go to the state.

I have no idea about the level of transparency, but I assume the results of the survey will be made public.

And I assume the police will enforce the laws on the users of these scooters to about the same degree they enforce the law on motorists, which is to say in a spotty fashion that allows them to skip using their turn signals, blow off the speed limit routinely, and roll through stop signs as a standard operating procedure (especially as they approach Clifton from the south, but really any time they feel like it).

Jim asked good questions. I can only assume that all the people in this discussion keep your phone in your pocket, or turn it off, or something, while driving, and that it is never in your hand.

Have people in this conversation used those scooters? I have not. And I do have some questions about how we manage them. But but if anyone uses them for transport, that means one less car on the road for that trip. They take up about 1/20th the parking space required for a car. And no matter what, they are much safer for all the people around them than a car.


Richard Baker
Posts: 349
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:06 am

Re: Scooter survey

Postby Richard Baker » Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:57 am

[quote="Jim O'Bryan"]Questions for all.

1) Where is your phone when you drive?

2) Did you try a scooter while they were here?

.[/quote]

No, although my SUV has Bluetooth for handsfree use. I can remember when drivers had to steer, roll down a window to hand signal, and shift gears just before and during a turn, in addition to using the right foot to operate the brake, clutch, and accelerator pedals. Oh, the left foot was only used for the headlights switch was a button on the left side of the floorboard. Does anyone have an explanation why not holding a cellphone in your hand while driving in the car makes it safer to use? Hands free use does not eliminate a driver's attention being diverted from the road to the conversation. Seventy percent of US drivers use their cellphone regularly while driving, and cellphone use while driving is responsible for 14 percent of the nation’s vehicle fatalities or 6,454 people in 2022.

No, I’m too old to play with an electric powered kick scooter, instead I ride motorcycles, it’s safer.


Tim Liston
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 3:10 pm

Re: Scooter survey

Postby Tim Liston » Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:04 am

My wife and I bought two of these last summer….

https://sport.woot.com/offers/hover-1-e ... onditioned

They’re fun. The built-in Bluetooth speaker is kinda neat. Earbuds are a BAD IDEA on a scooter or bike. They do get to 18mph but they don’t get up anything but a very modest slope. I bought mine brand new for $200 each, they’re long gone. These are returns (I presume) and I’m sure are fine. And value priced. I like mine a lot, so far. I found spare chargers on Ebay, small folding locks and bought a couple handlebar bags.

I can’t address the survey because I didn’t avail myself of Lakewood’s rental program. We (I) mostly just knocked around with them, joyriding. It’s nice along the lake in the summertime. On one occasion I threw one in the back of the truck, took the truck to Spremulli for a repair, and scootered home. And vice versa later for pick-up. That was very convenient! A couple times I threw the scooters in the car, my wife and I drove down to Edgewater Park, and we scootered across to Whiskey Island to watch the bands. That is a blast, car door to table and back. Great music, great scenery, great food, all outdoors, what’s not to like?

I also got a really good deal on an ebike last summer, Rad was closing out their RadMission over half off, they sold out in about three days. Good 500w motor gets you up hills. My daughter has it. I didn’t ride it much but ebikes are a blast, you feel like Superman. Fun.

I certainly would encourage Lakewood to encourage ebikes and scooters. Lakewood is pretty well situated for that -- physically, demographically, culturally, all that. Yes there will be collisions, hopefully very infrequently, especially as the motor vehicles and the bikes/scooters get used to each other. I hope the Lakewood program is successful. I do think many “scooterists” (?) will need some educating. Maybe it could supplant out long-gone RTA circulator, with stops along Madison and Detroit. Hmmm………


pj bennett
Posts: 231
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:56 pm

Re: Scooter survey

Postby pj bennett » Sat Feb 04, 2023 12:56 pm

Tim Liston wrote:My wife and I bought two of these last summer….

https://sport.woot.com/offers/hover-1-e ... onditioned

They’re fun. The built-in Bluetooth speaker is kinda neat. Earbuds are a BAD IDEA on a scooter or bike. They do get to 18mph but they don’t get up anything but a very modest slope. I bought mine brand new for $200 each, they’re long gone. These are returns (I presume) and I’m sure are fine. And value priced. I like mine a lot, so far. I found spare chargers on Ebay, small folding locks and bought a couple handlebar bags.

I can’t address the survey because I didn’t avail myself of Lakewood’s rental program. We (I) mostly just knocked around with them, joyriding. It’s nice along the lake in the summertime. On one occasion I threw one in the back of the truck, took the truck to Spremulli for a repair, and scootered home. And vice versa later for pick-up. That was very convenient! A couple times I threw the scooters in the car, my wife and I drove down to Edgewater Park, and we scootered across to Whiskey Island to watch the bands. That is a blast, car door to table and back. Great music, great scenery, great food, all outdoors, what’s not to like?

I also got a really good deal on an ebike last summer, Rad was closing out their RadMission over half off, they sold out in about three days. Good 500w motor gets you up hills. My daughter has it. I didn’t ride it much but ebikes are a blast, you feel like Superman. Fun.

I certainly would encourage Lakewood to encourage ebikes and scooters. Lakewood is pretty well situated for that -- physically, demographically, culturally, all that. Yes there will be collisions, hopefully very infrequently, especially as the motor vehicles and the bikes/scooters get used to each other. I hope the Lakewood program is successful. I do think many “scooterists” (?) will need some educating. Maybe it could supplant out long-gone RTA circulator, with stops along Madison and Detroit. Hmmm………


I don’t see how scooters could possibly be a replacement for the long-gone RTA Circulator.

The circulator could be ridden year round no matter the weather. Riding a scooter in the rain, snow or slushy streets sounds like a safety hazard to me, not to mention the cost and necessity of acquiring special clothing for warmth and/or dryness.

Carrying an open umbrella while on a scooter?
Now, that would be interesting.

One was able to climb aboard the long-gone RTA Circulator with multiple shopping bags, such as groceries or other items of necessity.

Not so, on a scooter.

I’m not saying, that I’m against scooters, but I’m thinking, that it’d make good sense for anyone riding a scooter, to be in fairly decent physical health with 4 functioning limbs, otherwise, balance can be thrown off. (The same goes for bicycles.)

I don’t think scooters are practical for a parent trying to get from Point A to Point B with a young child, who is too large to be carried on the back or too young to ride a scooter; anyone with a disability; or the aging population.

I see scooters as a pleasure convenience for the young and bicycle enthusiasts.

I don’t begrudge them, but the long-gone RTA Circulator provided a valuable service for everyone, not just a few…..no matter the weather.



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