Helmets for scooters?

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Mark Kindt
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Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:06 am

Re: Helmets for scooters?

Postby Mark Kindt » Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:18 pm

Mark Kindt wrote:
Mark Kindt wrote:I'm sure this all will take some adaptation time.

One went whizzing by me while I was waiting to turn right at an intersection and I was surprised by its speed and how unexpected it was for me.

Also, two scooters parked at the booze-garden today.

So, two of my pet peeves in action...

That's my report.


If I had made a "rolling" stop this would have most likely resulted in a fatality with its dire consequences. I don't make this point lightly.

These scooters have much more speed that you would ever expect.

Motorized bicycles present the same problem.


I have now had three encounters with them on sidewalks.

Mentality...pedestrians get out of the way....


Mark Kindt
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Re: Helmets for scooters?

Postby Mark Kindt » Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:39 am

Consumer Product Safety Commission on Electric Scooters, etc.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/electric-s ... our-years/

And, a recent tragedy at Kent State reported in the link below:

https://www.record-courier.com/story/ne ... 416815007/

Finally, keep your eyes on alert -- the first scooter rider that crosses an intersection in front of you may have a second scooter right behind them.


Dan Alaimo
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Re: Helmets for scooters?

Postby Dan Alaimo » Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:40 pm

Mark Kindt wrote:Finally, keep your eyes on alert -- the first scooter rider that crosses an intersection in front of you may have a second scooter right behind them.


Like deer?


“Never let a good crisis go to waste." - Winston Churchill (Quote later appropriated by Rahm Emanuel)
Mark Kindt
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Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:06 am

Re: Helmets for scooters?

Postby Mark Kindt » Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:03 am

Be Alert For Powered Bicycles

Please be patient and observant for the new motorized bicycles.

These are essentially unlicensed motorcycles. They are surprisingly fast and very agile.

No helmets. No insurance.

Despite claims to the contrary by the Lakewood Planning Department, powered skateboards, scooters, and bicycles are not a success.


Tim Liston
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Re: Helmets for scooters?

Postby Tim Liston » Thu Sep 22, 2022 7:30 pm

Mark Kindt says: ” Despite claims to the contrary by the Lakewood Planning Department, powered skateboards, scooters, and bicycles are not a success.”

Mark, I’m wondering how success is being measured or observed. What is the City hoping to accomplish by encouraging ebikes and scooters? I honestly don’t know. So how is the effort falling short so far? I pedal by the striped depot on Edgewater and Cove almost every day and I see pretty good turnover.

Mark, as you know I like the ebikes and scooters. They’re fun and useful. And compared to a car they are just about free to purchase and operate. And I wouldn’t liken them in any way to motorcycles. Yeesh! Most of the ebikes top out at 20 mph, purposefully. That’s not fast, some cyclists can get to 20 mph over stretches (but not me anymore). Class 1 and Class 2 ebikes (20 mph) can ride in designated trails or on the street. The Class 3 ebikes (28 mph) aren’t allowed in bikes lanes, just streets. But I don’t see them much. Of course no motored personal vehicle belongs on any sidewalk.

And why should an ebike rider require insurance? I generate about the same torque as a middling ebike motor and nobody’s crapping at me about insurance.

So how is the City’s effort falling short of goals?


Mark Kindt
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Re: Helmets for scooters?

Postby Mark Kindt » Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:44 am

Tim Liston wrote:Mark Kindt says: ” Despite claims to the contrary by the Lakewood Planning Department, powered skateboards, scooters, and bicycles are not a success.”

Mark, I’m wondering how success is being measured or observed. What is the City hoping to accomplish by encouraging ebikes and scooters? I honestly don’t know. So how is the effort falling short so far? I pedal by the striped depot on Edgewater and Cove almost every day and I see pretty good turnover.

Mark, as you know I like the ebikes and scooters. They’re fun and useful. And compared to a car they are just about free to purchase and operate. And I wouldn’t liken them in any way to motorcycles. Yeesh! Most of the ebikes top out at 20 mph, purposefully. That’s not fast, some cyclists can get to 20 mph over stretches (but not me anymore). Class 1 and Class 2 ebikes (20 mph) can ride in designated trails or on the street. The Class 3 ebikes (28 mph) aren’t allowed in bikes lanes, just streets. But I don’t see them much. Of course no motored personal vehicle belongs on any sidewalk.

And why should an ebike rider require insurance? I generate about the same torque as a middling ebike motor and nobody’s crapping at me about insurance.

So how is the City’s effort falling short of goals?


Frequently, the City of Lakewood makes positive PR claims about its activities and because these are merely PR claims there are never any metrics. It takes considerable effort to track down numbers as I have done in my commentaries on the expansion of liquor licenses into and onto public spaces. When there are metrics provided they rarely survive reasoned analysis. Claims that novelties are successful should have some basis.

I spoke with an owner of a powered skateboard yesterday. It is very cool and very high tech and has a maximum speed of 30 mph. This technology will only advance to higher speeds. That's how the arc of technology drives change with optimization.

Obviously, my statement "powered skateboards, scooters and bicycles are not a success" is my own opinion and I am convinced it has a reasoned basis.

Fun and enjoyment are fine values, but they should not come at the risk of general public traffic safety. Those considerations should drive the metrics of "success".

With respect to human-powered bicycles, our society has 125 years of experience with them and the relationship between motor vehicles / motorcycles with them has more or less evolve successfully over time.

Motor vehicles require driver education, driver licensing, titling, registration and liability insurances. Powered skateboards, scooters, and bikes simply do not.

My observations of "hot dogging" with this new generation of transport and my understanding of the weight, speed, and braking limitations of my car tell me that I have a daily higher risk of injury to these novel forms of transportation and those who use them than I would perhaps like.

And, of course, they are being used on the sidewalks too.

I've had 10 years of watching the City of Lakewood experiment with itself and I note very few successes. I've spend vast amounts of wasted keyboard time on the failures.

These powered novelties may be the future, but they come with a very high moral risk for all licensed drivers using the existing traffic safety infrastructure.

And, by "moral" risk, I mean a single "T-bone" accident.


Mark Kindt
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Re: Helmets for scooters?

Postby Mark Kindt » Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:59 am

On the topic of insurance, I note that I have had a more than 10% increase in my auto insurance for the coming year.

The point of this observation is that the businesses promoting powered scooters here are relying upon the state statutory automotive insurance structure to protect themselves from liability by shifting the user accident injury risk costs to insured licensed drivers in the event of a collision.

The relevant cost impacts are not transparent, but they are there.

The user gets an inexpensive ride, but there is probably a cost-shifting risk that has already been calculated by the venture capitalists funding this future.

Adaptation to this future is something we are all stuck with.

It requires more driver vigilance and that may be an actual positive.

It has certainly changed my perspective on what I do every day.


Mark Kindt
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Re: Helmets for scooters?

Postby Mark Kindt » Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:02 pm

Consumer Product Safety Commission Statistics On Micromobility Products

Here's the link to the reported accidents as of about a year ago:

https://www.cpsc.gov/Newsroom/News-Rele ... Four-Years


-- There were more than 190,000 emergency room (ED) visits due to all micromobility products from 2017 through 2020. ED visits had a steady 70% increase from 34,000 (2017), 44,000 (2018), 54,800 (2019) to 57,800 (2020).

-- Much of the increase between 2017 and later years was attributable to ED visits involving e-scooters, which rose three times as much, from 7,700 (2017), to 14,500 (2018), to 27,700 (2019) and 25,400 (2020).

-- Injuries happened most frequently to upper and lower limbs, as well as the head and the neck.

--CPSC is aware of 71 fatalities associated with micromobility products from 2017 through 2020, although reporting is incomplete.

--We can now add the recent fatality in Kent to that number.


When I left for lunch, I watched a fellow barreling along the side walk entering the crosswalk and, of course, wearing ear buds.

At lunch, I saw a rider "hot-dogging" through the intersection at Detroit and Andrews.

Crowing from the Lakewood Planning Department about "success' is probably premature.


Mark Kindt
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Re: Helmets for scooters?

Postby Mark Kindt » Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:41 pm

More Recent Reporting

This discussion is more recent-- April 2022.

https://newatlas.com/urban-transport/st ... torcycles/

It is disturbing to me that e-scooters and these micro-mobility products are unlicensed, yet the e-scooter accident rates are as high as motorcycle accident rates.

--User-friendly, fun, cheap and with an accident risk probably comparable to motorcycle accident risk.

Lakewood should end this experiment, before there is a fatality.

Let's ask this hypothetical question about our cross-walks:

Who has the right-away in the cross-walk?

The e-scooter traveling at 20 or 28 miles an hour or the young mother pushing the baby carriage as she crosses Lakeland?

Anyone see a good end to this?

Agile young mother or agile e-scooter driver.

Are we really counting on this kind of agility to protect the safety of children in prams?

Are we nuts?


Dan Alaimo
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Re: Helmets for scooters?

Postby Dan Alaimo » Sat Sep 24, 2022 7:08 pm

Mark Kindt wrote:Be Alert For Powered Bicycles

Please be patient and observant for the new motorized bicycles.

These are essentially unlicensed motorcycles. They are surprisingly fast and very agile.

No helmets. No insurance.

Despite claims to the contrary by the Lakewood Planning Department, powered skateboards, scooters, and bicycles are not a success.


Mark, I'm not sure you fully understand electric bikes. Many are owned by responsible adult bicycle riders and unlike the scooters and skateboards, they are rarely found on sidewalks. They have to adhere to the rules of the road just like vehicles. For some reason I can't fully explain, they do represent a danger to the riders who have paid significant money for the privilege, and I have witnessed the results of this first-hand, but the danger to others is no different from regular bicycles.


“Never let a good crisis go to waste." - Winston Churchill (Quote later appropriated by Rahm Emanuel)
Mark Kindt
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Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:06 am

Re: Helmets for scooters?

Postby Mark Kindt » Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:33 am

Dan Alaimo wrote:
Mark Kindt wrote:Be Alert For Powered Bicycles

Please be patient and observant for the new motorized bicycles.

These are essentially unlicensed motorcycles. They are surprisingly fast and very agile.

No helmets. No insurance.

Despite claims to the contrary by the Lakewood Planning Department, powered skateboards, scooters, and bicycles are not a success.


Mark, I'm not sure you fully understand electric bikes. Many are owned by responsible adult bicycle riders and unlike the scooters and skateboards, they are rarely found on sidewalks. They have to adhere to the rules of the road just like vehicles. For some reason I can't fully explain, they do represent a danger to the riders who have paid significant money for the privilege, and I have witnessed the results of this first-hand, but the danger to others is no different from regular bicycles.


The Wall Street Journal has now had two full-page articles touting e-bikes. Yesterday on Lake Avenue I didn't see anybody cranking at 28 mph on their "human-powered" bicycles. I witnessed some very low-speed effortful pedaling.

Clearly, e-bikes though unlicensed and uninsured expect to be treated as street-legal at least in the minds of the WSJ journalists. They cost between $3,000 and $10,000+. They are here to stay.

The power and speed of an e-bike is the key differentiation.

Even a minor accident on an ordinary "unpowered" bicycle can be severe and and possibly life-altering or even fatal.

I know, because I have had a "human-powered" bicycle accident. Two of my friends have had them also, though more serious than mine. In each accident, it took months for the rider to fully recover from their injuries. These were serious and committed cyclist with long experience with their equipment. I should also note that my accident occurred on a sunny morning on an empty street due to a mechanical failure; I was flipped "head over heels" onto my back. (None of the accidents that I mention here involved autos).

I understand that there are technical and legal differences between e-bikes, e-scooters, and e-skateboards. With the level of power and speed engineered into these kinds of micro-mobility products; their riders are at serious risk of injury. --Add "ear buds" and the risk is logically greater due to impaired awareness. As I have noted previously, there are e-scooters on the streets of Lakewood that are more powerful than the e-scooters that often lay in our streets on Sunday morning.

My anecdotal experience is that about 50% of the e-scooters in Lakewood are being operated on the city sidewalks. And, to my eye, the e-bikes are being ridden on the streets as if they were motorcycles, not bicycles.

I have a lot to learn about all of this.


Edward Favre
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Re: Helmets for scooters?

Postby Edward Favre » Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:49 pm

There's one abandoned on the McKinley bridge over I-90 for about the last week. Tomorrow is garbage day so maybe they'll get rid of it.


Dan Alaimo
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Re: Helmets for scooters?

Postby Dan Alaimo » Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:32 am

Something lost in this discussion worth noting is that the City has authorized the scooter program making it fair game for criticism. It has nothing to do with the presence of Ebikes and skateboards.


“Never let a good crisis go to waste." - Winston Churchill (Quote later appropriated by Rahm Emanuel)
Mark Kindt
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Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:06 am

Re: Helmets for scooters?

Postby Mark Kindt » Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:02 am

Considering that we rely upon the City of Lakewood to maintain traffic safety and maintain a traffic safety infrastructure, this discussion should be broader than just one specific program.

We each now, as both pedestrians and drivers, have to cope with additional public safety risks from the expansion of micro-mobility products in our town.

Up to and including, avoiding driving over e-scooters laying on their sides in the streets.


michael gill
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Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:28 am
Location: lakewood

Re: Helmets for scooters?

Postby michael gill » Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:28 pm

Yes, in the same way that people driving semi trucks should avoid running over Hondas and Toyotas, people driving cars should avoid driving over the various micro mobility products.

Be careful out there. Driving driving thousands of pounds of steel around town is really dangerous.

Thank you.



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