Signs, Signs, Everywhere

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Ivor Karabatkovic
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Re: Signs, Signs, Everywhere

Postby Ivor Karabatkovic » Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:30 pm

For some reason, this billboard reminds me of the song "Fake Plastic Trees" by Radiohead.

Depressing.

But Clear Channel saved a ton of money by probably going to a stock photography agency and typing in sunny day and tree, and buying royalties to an image, rather than hiring a local photographer. There's much more to it than getting a phone call and saying "we want your photo". Especially when it comes to billboards.

I like it. It's better than nothing....and it's not like some of the websites of Lakewood organizations that have photos of the DowntowN Cleveland skyline on them.


"Hey Kiddo....this topic is much more important than your football photos, so deal with it." - Mike Deneen
Donald Farris
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Re: Signs, Signs, Everywhere

Postby Donald Farris » Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:17 pm

Hi,
I disagree, the billboard co. does this sort of thing every day. Granted a photo contest would take some time, but in that case the photographer would waive rights to enter the contest and then you have the image for this use for nothing. No time for a photo contest? I would assume the City of Lakewood already owes a number of "stock" photos of beautiful Lakewood that they have for example on their web site. Those I assume would actually be of Lakewood. Any one of these could have been sent over. Additionally, there is an aspect of marketing where repeating the image in different medias helps with association.

If we drive around NE Ohio will we see Beautiful Garfield Heights with the same picture?

Not all people like depressing.


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war will put an end to mankind.
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Danielle Masters
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Re: Signs, Signs, Everywhere

Postby Danielle Masters » Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:23 pm

Radiohead depressing?????? :shock:

I am shocked to hear such a horrible thing from you Ivor! Hahaha! I guess it should be noted they are my favorite band.

Anyhow back on topic I don't think any harm was meant by clear channel. While I would love a real picture of Lakewood and the idea of a contest would be cool, I would prefer a fake picture over nothing but a blank billboard. And I am sure if the city paid for a billboard many people would be in an uproar over wasted dollars.


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Jim O'Bryan
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Re: Signs, Signs, Everywhere

Postby Jim O'Bryan » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:42 am

Image
LakewoodAlive's efforts to bring hoops back to the city of Lakewood.

Image
Boy! How many signs in this one photo!

Image
That is the spirit!

.


Jim O'Bryan
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Corey Rossen
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Re: Signs, Signs, Everywhere

Postby Corey Rossen » Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:44 am

Jim, you know what I think it even funnier than the message you are trying to convey about signage is that it is coming from the owner of a sign company. Irony is a beautiful thing. It would be like my dentist complaining about candy ads during the Super Bowl--"how dare they, oh wait, that is my job security."

What do you suggest, instead of always complaining, to rectify the issue? Zoning and signage is expense and difficult for small businesses to submit to the city, yet small business (like 97.3% of all Lakewood businesses, I know you like stats so I just made one up for you :wink: ) are just that, small, and need to find a way to promote to stay in business. If you would like a box store to come to town, one that afford fancy marketing and signage, just say so--otherwise deal with the reality that Lakewood is built on small, sometimes family, businesses that need every economic edge to stay alive in this market driven world.

So, Jim, what would you do you to fix the issue that would serve both businesses and community? How would stay alive and pay bills if you had a storefront in Lakewood?

Corey


Corey Rossen

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Jim O'Bryan
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Re: Signs, Signs, Everywhere

Postby Jim O'Bryan » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:01 am

Corey Rossen wrote:So, Jim, what would you do you to fix the issue that would serve both businesses and community? How would stay alive and pay bills if you had a storefront in Lakewood?

Corey


Corey

Where does one start?

Let me first say this thread is nothing more than a digital record of signage in and around
Lakewood, it has nothing to do with complaining, and as you and I spoke of I truly enjoyed
the humor in Cerny's sign and Rozi's signs at the Streetwalk.

That said "sign wars" is absolutely a no win situation for anyone. We need to go no farther
than the current trend of 1, 2, 3 A-Frame signs in front of businesses. One company like
Rozi's acquired one to "stand-out" from the crowd and within a month every business on
the strip has one, so it just becomes a jungle of crappy signage again. So while people
are looking at the A-Frames they are missing the store front signage.

What I would do is ask the city to make A-Frames illegal for a variety of reasons, and as
you have noted I am in the sign business and sell them, so I am speaking of hurting my
own business. Then I would make window signage follow the laws of the past twenty years
which would force store owners to become more creative with their window displays. It
is my experience that shoppers like creative often changed windows over clutter and
crappy signage.

I think making Detroit one lane in each direction should also have helped until the sign
wars broke out. It gave drivers a chance to enjoy and window shop as they drove down
the avenue. Sign clutter takes away from that experience and make the city look trashy.

Again, please not that you have a person that makes money from signage saying less is
better, not more.

With less clutter, when a store has a real sale or event it will jump off the window and
allow everyone to notice it is a special event.

FWIW

.


Jim O'Bryan
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If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
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Corey Rossen
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Re: Signs, Signs, Everywhere

Postby Corey Rossen » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:08 am

Jim, I understand the light-heartedness of this thread, but with the current crackdown of signage in Lakewood, it has become more relevant.

I agree with you about better window displays (as you will hopefully see in the next few weeks) but that is not an answer nor a solution.

You suggest "specials" popping from windows, these "specials" signs cost money to make, constant money (cha-ching AGS). An A-Frame is much more cost efficient for Lakewood businesses. You may be saying less A-Frames but you are proposing more individual, personalized signs (double cha-ching).

We would love drivers to check out the window displays, but hopefully (and realistically)they are paying attention to traffic, buses, mini-cars and traffic lights. A quick glance at an A-Frame is more likely than a gaze into the window. The window displays, in Lakewood's case, are much more pedestrian friendly--which Lakewood is definately a pedestrian town (especially now that we are filled with Street Walkers :wink: ).

So is this your solution - ban signs and have businesses do better window displays. I think it takes more than that on both ends of the stick. Where is my Game Show buzzer when I need it?

Corey


Corey Rossen

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"I am not neutral." ~Jim O'Bryan

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Jill Jusko
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Re: Signs, Signs, Everywhere

Postby Jill Jusko » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:10 pm

I'm writing this as a shopper.

I am one of those people who responds strongly to curb appeal in my shopping. If I'm driving down a road, a nice visual display captures my attention. Even if I don't stop right then, and I sometimes do, I remember to stop by later.

For me personally, window displays are nice and the lettering on windows can be helpful. Sometimes, however, it is difficult to see. The real curb appeal for me comes the signage above the windows. When that is sharp, or at least nice and clean, it attracts my attention.

Two areas that I think have good displays of signage from a curb appeal standpoint are at the west end of Lakewood where Dewey's, Around the Corner, and a couple of other establishments are located. They are all well-tended and DIFFERENT and UNIQUE. It attracts my eye and incents me to pay a visit. Another close-by area that does the same, although it's outside of Lakewood, is right over the bridge on Detroit into Rocky River. You know where I'm talking about...those small shops by the big pink condo building. Those shops, too, all have unique, interesting, eye-catching signage.

I think that is missing from many [not all] of the downtown Lakewood stores. As I mentioned in another thread, there is a lot of tired beige on brown signage, brown on beige, beige on tan, and other tired colors, and quite frankly, tired looking signs. Simply putting a fresh coat of paint on some of those signs would help immensely. Tired-looking on the outside does not really incent me to go inside. Plus...we talk and write about the unique shops Lakewood has. The signage above the windows should hint -- or maybe scream -- of the unique items inside.

I hear about the restrictive signage regulations that Lakewood has. Maybe some of this is a result of those, I don't know. I hope beige on beige isn't a requirement.

Anyways, I write this truly not to be critical for its own sake, but to point out something that maybe some shop owners don't give enough credence to.

OK, I have run on too long, and don't even know if I made the point I had hoped to. I enjoy Lakewood and hope to see all of its shops and restaurants succeed.


Corey Rossen
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Re: Signs, Signs, Everywhere

Postby Corey Rossen » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:51 pm

Jill, thanks for the view from a shopping perspective.

I also like the windows on the west side of town. They seem large, spacious, and for a lack of a better term - bright.

The windows downtown seem to take on a little different tone, as do the occupants. The west is covered with bars, restaurants, a cafe, Bonnie Bell, and other inviting places. Some are done more tastfully than others with their usage of neons. Downtown, though we do have a bar or two, seems much more congested - maybe the signage make me feel this way. Also, all the traffic lights downtown add to the crammed feel. On a side note, the buildings downtown, being taller and close to the street, adds to that feeling.

I guess the signage issue (brown on tan with beige borders) never seemed to be an issue to me, but it definately contributes to the blahs. Maybe I never put them all together.

Corey


Corey Rossen

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"I am not neutral." ~Jim O'Bryan

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Jim O'Bryan
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Re: Signs, Signs, Everywhere

Postby Jim O'Bryan » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:16 am

Corey Rossen wrote:Jill, thanks for the view from a shopping perspective.

I guess the signage issue (brown on tan with beige borders) never seemed to be an issue to me, but it definately contributes to the blahs. Maybe I never put them all together.

Corey


Jill

I agree with Corey, good comments on signage.

I love the new look the city is working on, getting rid of the boring brown, beige, pink, gold, which was left over from the 70s when the city was desperately chasing the mall
look. To do battle with Westgate and Great Northern.

With the advancement of new signage materials, and lower cost of high quality signs, it
is great to see the attitude, and concept of a store come to the outside of stores. If
I have a chance I will post photos from my trip east where one of the nicest towns I
walked in and shopped in had amazing signage, well kept, and almost no window signage.
The streets were filled, it was clean, well kept and packed.

If a business is banking on signs alone, they might as well close right now. ALL businesses
need a comprehensive marketing package that includes, everything that reaches into
their buyers world. Print, online, e-letters(used way to much), websites, newspapers,
radios, even TV. Join civic groups that promote cross marketing and working together like
MAMA, that cost nothing to join, and does not take a piece of the action.

.


Jim O'Bryan
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"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
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If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
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Jim O'Bryan
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Re: Signs, Signs, Everywhere

Postby Jim O'Bryan » Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:19 am

Back on topic

Image
Highland Mini Police Station, 1500 W117th St? No. Try 1500 Highland Ave. thank you.
She was never really that sharp.


Image
Dave Buehler's handiwork. Nice job Dave.


Image
Worse garage sale sign I have ever seen. Overall dimension is only 11" x 17"
See from up close barely legible, from a car!


.


Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident

"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg

"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Christopher Bindel
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Re: Signs, Signs, Everywhere

Postby Christopher Bindel » Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:46 am

Speaking of Dave Buehler does anyone have any idea how to contact him? I went to a talk he had months ago at the library and I offered to help him with some Templar related things so he gave me his card. I called him every week for 2 months, left messages, and never got a response. I really like what he is doing and would still like to help him, but calling him is obviously not working. Anyone else have an Idea?


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Jim O'Bryan
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Re: Signs, Signs, Everywhere

Postby Jim O'Bryan » Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:59 am

Image
Coming soon? More than one person has talked about
bringing the restaurant connected to this sign to Lakewood.
Ready for one of the best burger experiences in America
according to the Food Channel?

Meanwhile more fun signs around town already here.

Image


Image


Image



.


Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident

"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg

"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Matt Jones
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Re: Signs, Signs, Everywhere

Postby Matt Jones » Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:00 am

Jim O'Bryan wrote:[img]Coming soon? More than one person has talked about
bringing the restaurant connected to this sign to Lakewood.
Ready for one of the best burger experiences in America
according to the Food Channel?

.


A Swenson's in Lakewood? Outstanding. One of the few good things about my exile in Summit County is the proximity to that wonderful drive-in. I think it would be massively popular with locals and could potentially be a regional draw (at least until they expand into other nearby suburbs).


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Re: Signs, Signs, Everywhere

Postby David Lay » Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:06 am

Matt Jones wrote:A Swenson's in Lakewood? Outstanding. One of the few good things about my exile in Summit County is the proximity to that wonderful drive-in. I think it would be massively popular with locals and could potentially be a regional draw (at least until they expand into other nearby suburbs).


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