And Then There Was 137

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Jim O'Bryan
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And Then There Was 137

Postby Jim O'Bryan » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:19 pm

Bridget Conant wrote:Bill Call wrote:
Restaurants? We are at the saturation point with new restaurants. Which restaurant will close so that the tax payer subsidized restaurant will succeed?


Well another one bites the dust.

Burgers2Beer on Detroit at Warren is closed as of today.

Saturated is an understatement.



You know, this should make everyone think. Successful elsewhere, price points dead on point for Lakewood. Even discounts for off hours, valet parking, and in DowntowN.

138, goes to 137...

.


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Bill Call
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Re: And Then There Was 137

Postby Bill Call » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:18 am

Jim O'Bryan wrote:You know, this should make everyone think.


I'm sure that the Mayor and City Council HAVE thought about this. That is why they will be offering operating subsidies to businesses that move to the Hospital site. I suspect that those subsidies will be buried in some yet to be revealed secret agreement and paid for out of some secret slush fund. I will be very surprised if the Mayor and council give an honest accounting.

Will the taxpayer subsidized business attract out of town customers or will the taxpayer subsidized business cannibalize existing business in Lakewood?


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Re: And Then There Was 137

Postby Jim O'Bryan » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:04 am

Bill Call wrote:
Jim O'Bryan wrote:You know, this should make everyone think.


I'm sure that the Mayor and City Council HAVE thought about this. That is why they will be offering operating subsidies to businesses that move to the Hospital site. I suspect that those subsidies will be buried in some yet to be revealed secret agreement and paid for out of some secret slush fund. I will be very surprised if the Mayor and council give an honest accounting.

Will the taxpayer subsidized business attract out of town customers or will the taxpayer subsidized business cannibalize existing business in Lakewood?



Bill


You forget, Lakewoodites have been trained to use our money to subsidize business.

Witness, "DowntowN" in most other cities that would be a SID, supported by the businesses in its border. Only here in Lakewood are residents tricked into supporting which is looking more and more like a movie set. They talk of Coventry, but Coventry is a SID, a majority of all improvements paid for by the businesses.

But here, the mover and shakers create false narratives, that all of their ideas, will save Lakewood from ourselves. While raising taxes, cost of living, and many of the very special things that make Lakewood, Lakewood. In a desperate action to prove they are right, not mistaken. Hence the never ending crawl down the business rabbit hole that erodes fine residential living, for the delusional concept "we are a destination." Because the second they stop pushing that delusion, it all falls apart very quickly.

Lakewood made its bones, being a great place to raise a family, fall in love, find an apartment then as the family grew, the couple couple continue to buy up the social/economic ladder. Apartment, to half a house, half a house to starter home, starter home to 4 bedroom, then eventually back to the apartment, and finally assisted living. And unbelievably perfectly organically built community, that needed very little else to thrive, and survive.

But Lalewood's dreamers, movers and shakers have proven again, and again, and again, and again. They come up with seriously flawed plans, that they have ZERO ability to deliver on, so they ALWAYS come up short in every way, forcing them to start yet another to cover up their never ending string of failures. Marc's Plaza, the center of high end shopping with habitrails for humans going to the Hospital, Lakewood Center North, Geigers, Barnacle Bills... ZERO ability to carry through on that. West End an idiots view of what we need. Small thinking on the edge of our most valuable property. DowntowN where we desperately needed a gazebo so that it could become a proper "Mainstreet City." :roll:

As you know far to well, "One Lakewood" is merely another act of scrambling to save their asses and faces from another failed attempt at a Rec Center, that they wanted without ever really looking into what it does to communities that cannot afford them. So now they come up with "One Lakewood" version 1, "One Lakewood" version deux, "One Lakewood" version trois... As the failed civic leaders and elected officials prove yet again, they are far better at following each other down the rabbit hole, then thinking for themselves, what alone outside the box.

The very real problem, as we are witnessing globally, once you screw up an Eco-system and or community, it is hard to restore balance and order.

.


Jim O'Bryan
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Dan OMalley
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Re: And Then There Was 137

Postby Dan OMalley » Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:58 pm

It's not really fair to say we've got an over-saturation of "restaurants." An over-saturation of burger places, or pizza, etc., could be fairly argued.

By the end of this week Lakewood will have had at least four new restaurants open within the last month. I went to three of them over the weekend - they were each jam-packed, and each happen to offer something unique that you can't get anywhere else in the city.


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Re: And Then There Was 137

Postby Bill Call » Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:45 pm

Dan OMalley wrote:It's not really fair to say we've got an over-saturation of "restaurants." An over-saturation of burger places, or pizza, etc., could be fairly argued.

By the end of this week Lakewood will have had at least four new restaurants open within the last month. I went to three of them over the weekend - they were each jam-packed, and each happen to offer something unique that you can't get anywhere else in the city.


That's a good point. When Burgers2beer opened I asked the manager if Lakewood needed another burger place. He didn't have an answer. It will be interesting to see what opens in Jammy Buggars. I went to one of the new places and was unimpressed with the food. Everything else what top notch.

Of course, there are only so many customers out there. We live in a City with a declining population in a region with a declining population.

Sullivan's had one of the best appointed places in Cuyahoga County and offered a varied menu. Every restaurant that followed ruined it just a little bit more.


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Re: And Then There Was 137

Postby J Hrlec » Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:50 pm

Dan OMalley wrote:It's not really fair to say we've got an over-saturation of "restaurants." An over-saturation of burger places, or pizza, etc., could be fairly argued.

By the end of this week Lakewood will have had at least four new restaurants open within the last month. I went to three of them over the weekend - they were each jam-packed, and each happen to offer something unique that you can't get anywhere else in the city.


Spot on.

I guess some people can take any news topic in Lakewood and point it towards city government as a negative.


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Re: And Then There Was 137

Postby Jim O'Bryan » Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:55 pm

J Hrlec wrote:Spot on.

I guess some people can take any news topic in Lakewood and point it towards city government as a negative.



It like people that wonder in to just point out negatives with more negatives.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Do you really think the City of Lakewood picks out what restaurants come here? If that were true, they would have all failed by now.

What Bill was pointng out that a small handful are about to be publicly supported through sweet deals, and how tough that will be on the rest.

But don;t let reason or critical thought get in the way of your blind hatred.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

.


Jim O'Bryan
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Re: And Then There Was 137

Postby Jim O'Bryan » Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:30 pm

Dan OMalley wrote:It's not really fair to say we've got an over-saturation of "restaurants." An over-saturation of burger places, or pizza, etc., could be fairly argued.

By the end of this week Lakewood will have had at least four new restaurants open within the last month. I went to three of them over the weekend - they were each jam-packed, and each happen to offer something unique that you can't get anywhere else in the city.



Dan

In your post you actually named some of the problems. As Bill pointed out, and something everyone seems to forget, a smaller city, in a shrinking region in shrinking county. Every new packed place means, another place missing a few people. I am not sure if you have ever been in the restaurant business, but places like "The Shore" for example are run on a very small profit margin. Tina and Angelo live in a modest house, that had a 30 year mortgage, It barely gets by with the number of people it serves daily. A good living but they are not rich. The same is true for many of the restaurants in town. So to lose 2 patrons a day, really hits the bottom line. 2 patrons a day, over a month could b $500 in profit or more. This scales up and down with the outlay.

Look at Western Reserve, just opened. It is basically a retiree's dream. A wealthy man's hobby with a hope for a profit way down the road. The last Cleveland distillery went bust very quickly. The restaurant is not large enough to save everything should it come to that. Recently two more distilleries opened in the area. So even with 4 new restaurants, that pull off 10 people a night it is felt somewhere by someone. The city did not get 40 new residents. We are 20,000 residents from our high point.

New restaurants pull for about 30-60 days before the next "thing" pulls the customers in, then it is based on value, quality, service, accessibility...

Even something different, still comes down to number of people eating out, with a finite dollar to spend on eating out. That is the math of the whole deal. So when someone with price points spot on, good service, and a quality project fails, like B2B, it should be seen as a canary in a coal mine dying.

I was speaking with a very successful restaurateur at lunch today. He asked me about the 137 place number I posted. I told him I count any place you can get prepared food. Simply put food that is heated or cooled. 7-11, because if someone stops at 7-11 for a burrito it is a meal they are not eating in a restaurant. The Sunoco station across from City Hall has coffee, pop tarts, muffins more and a microwave to heat them up. Two muffins and a cup of coffee is one less coffee at the Root, and one less meal at The Shore. In the big picture it all has to be taken into account.

Honestly, their is not a single restaurateur in Lakewood that does not believe we are past our saturation limit. When you discuss places that serve ground beef in various forms, we are past the point of absurdity.

Now as I pointed out to JH and I know you know. City Hall does not bring restaurants to Lakewood, they cannot really even regulate the restaurants that come to Lakewood except through parking, size, hours, etc. But, I often wonder how many more the city can support, and what happens when they start to fail?

FWIW

.


Jim O'Bryan
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"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
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If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
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Bridget Conant
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Re: And Then There Was 137

Postby Bridget Conant » Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:02 pm

What’s the point of acting all excited over a restaurant, really?

They are notoriously transitory due to such slim profit margins. The jobs they create aren’t even minimum wage and most restaurant jobs are hot, hard, and dirty.

A place opens, attracts all the attention because it’s NEW!, then the novelty wears off and it back to the grind of competing for scarce entertainment dollars.

The city doesn’t attract new places; I’m laughing that they act like it’s something they did when a new place opens.

I’m glad we have choices, I patronize those that offer good food and value, but I don’t look to the restaurant business to somehow “save” Lakewood. It isn’t an industry that adds much to the bottom line.


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Re: And Then There Was 137

Postby Dan Alaimo » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:48 pm

Something I've missed in this discussion (and maybe I literally missed it) is the possibility of Lakewood reaching a critical mass of restaurants so as to become a regional destination. That is something the city should take an interest in. And we are already part of the way there. As Dan O'Malley hinted at, if many or most of those establishments are burger, beer and pizza joints, that won't cut it. It will take diversity, and a little more parking.


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Re: And Then There Was 137

Postby Jim O'Bryan » Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:37 pm

Dan Alaimo wrote:Something I've missed in this discussion (and maybe I literally missed it) is the possibility of Lakewood reaching a critical mass of restaurants so as to become a regional destination. That is something the city should take an interest in. And we are already part of the way there. As Dan O'Malley hinted at, if many or most of those establishments are burger, beer and pizza joints, that won't cut it. It will take diversity, and a little more parking.


Dan

It will take a lot more parking, and a much larger budget for Lakewood Police.

Can Lakewood literally afford being a destination city? I would think Lakewood Police would need another 50% more officers, more cars, hell cars that work. And upgrade to the old beat to death cruiser police radios, etc.

One of the major problems, is when a community goes from bedroom community to destination community, laws get broken, cars get stolen, drunks get in trouble.

Over a decade ago I posted the most expensive forms of development. Least expensive was community gardens, most expensive was abandon industrial. Entertainment districts were up there, as were malls.

But if we look at Bills post and it is correct, the County still loses about 15 people a day. So are we bringing people in from out of the county? Out of state, and why?

It might be an option, but the city needs to understand what is needed and how it can keep it going.

There was an idea to bring in RRHOF/Hotel with backing and ways to make it happen, documented here. Mayor Summers blew it off.

What is the next big draw? Casinos? As proven downtown and elsewhere outside of a 5 block region they destroy neighborhoods.

What is the draw?

.


Jim O'Bryan
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"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
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If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
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Brian Essi
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Re: And Then There Was 137

Postby Brian Essi » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:39 pm

J Hrlec wrote:
Dan OMalley wrote:It's not really fair to say we've got an over-saturation of "restaurants." An over-saturation of burger places, or pizza, etc., could be fairly argued.

By the end of this week Lakewood will have had at least four new restaurants open within the last month. I went to three of them over the weekend - they were each jam-packed, and each happen to offer something unique that you can't get anywhere else in the city.


Spot on.

I guess some people can take any news topic in Lakewood and point it towards city government as a negative.



Correction: The city government is a negative for the city---there is no need to take any news topic to expose the negatives of the government--the government actors do that all on their own---dishonesty, incompetence and lacking in transparency add up to NEGATIVE.


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Re: And Then There Was 137

Postby Michael Loje » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:53 pm

Just curious. Does anyone have a listing of Lakewood restaurants that are publicly subsidized?


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Re: And Then There Was 137

Postby Jim O'Bryan » Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:04 am

Michael Loje wrote:Just curious. Does anyone have a listing of Lakewood restaurants that are publicly subsidized?


Michael

I would think that the list would be; B2B, Ivory Keys, and Mahall's.

B2B, and Ivory Keys through the city set up valet service, and Mahall's by the amount of City Hall functions at it.

.


Jim O'Bryan
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"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg

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If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Michael Loje
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Re: And Then There Was 137

Postby Michael Loje » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:55 pm

Lets say that three restaurants were subsidized by the city. And I would say thats a stretch to include Ivory Keys. So about 2% are subsidized. That means about 130 odd unsubsidized restaurants seem to be getting along. There will always be attrition, as in any business or location. The recurring question is "why does the city promote the bar/restaurant economy?". The simple answer is, the city doesn't. The commercial districts in Lakewood, built in the teens and twenties, lend themselves to restaurant/bar use. So Lakewood will probably continue as a restaurant mecca for the foreseeable future. By the way, the restaurants in Lakewood have improved greatly in both quality and longevity in the 40 years that I've lived here.
BTW Jim, Who lasted longer, Ivory Keys, or the Titanic at Madison and Arthur?



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