City Council Member Contacts Ohio AG re/ Lakewood Hospital Debacle!

[cmager]

...actually, to my knowledge, no council member has. And it begs the question: Why not?

Why hasn't any member of City Council contacted the Ohio Attorney General to request an investigation into the Lakewood Hospital debacle? You would think that if nothing is inappropriate, that members of City Council would beg, would welcome an investigation by the AG.

Perhaps this is best asked of the two new council members who ran heavily on the promises of honesty and transparency. Where are Councilman Rader and Councilwoman George? Have they asked for an honest and transparent, independent investigation by the Attorney General? Why not?

I guess we can understand why the other five members of council, Mayor Summers, the Law Director, and the Finance Director are afraid of the discoveries of such an investigation. But what in the hospital debacle is so dark as to instantly snuff the honest and transparent sunshine promised by Mr. Rader and Ms. George? Have Councilman Rader and Councilwoman George contacted the Attorney General? Why not?

[mjkuhns]

1. Have you asked them first? Why not? They live right here in Lakewood. They have e-mail, phone numbers, social media accounts, etc. What is it about directly contacting these members of council that's so daunting as to instantly snuff Deckers' professed great concern with these issues?

2. The belief that there is some kind of duty of council members to light the beacons of Gondor because only then can fill-in-the-blank agency descend upon Lakewood and cleanse the city of sin is approaching urban legend status. To my knowledge I am one of the only people who actually has examined this premise, and reported the results.

Both the state AG's office and the Ethics Commission informed me during a phone conversation that they cannot initiate an investigation without a letter of request from ONE councilmember or the chief of police.

As the above differed fundamentally from what I have been told by two legal professionals whom I regard very highly, I contacted these same agencies today. While I don't know exactly what question may have been posed to them by anyone else, I described the above statement to them, and asked if it is correct.

The person I spoke with at the Ohio Attorney General's office said that the AG is generally prevented from investigating a local government entirely on his own initiative, owing to Ohio's home rule doctrine. But he pointed to the local county prosecutor as the appropriate official to invite in AG investigation. Members of city council, from what he told me, do not have any special authority in relation to the AG's ability to investigate a local government.

The person I spoke with at the Ohio Ethics Commission gave a simpler answer, which is that the OEC evaluates complaints, not the office of persons making complaints. He said that there is definitely not any requirement for a request by either a city council member, or a chief of police, anywhere in their process.

This summary represents my conversations, as faithfully as possible, with one person to whom I spoke at each of the agencies in question. It's obviously not legal advice, and for those who want more direct official sources, it's probably best to visit the web sites of the OEC and AG, yourself.

No surprise, when I did so, no response followed—in that thread. Yet several weeks later, those inconvenient and awkward points having slid down into the archives, here it comes again.

3. Has any individual desirous of an investigation subsequently contacted the OEC, or the county prosecutor? Has anyone called them out online? Why not?

4. Has every person posting here in the belief that some or other agency should investigate Lakewood government personally contacted any agency to request an investigation? Why not? Have they obtained any statement or actual evidence that any agency would assign additional, greater importance to a request by a city council member than to the request of a private citizen? Have they published that evidence? Why not?

5. The reason why I think that these issues need to be better substantiated is because without some actual reason for declaring that "write a letter to ___" is a test of integrity, it becomes an endless and unpassable test. Already the Ohio AG, the OEC, the Auditor and the US DOJ have been added to the checklist. Will council members be questioned for failing to present a letter that they wrote directly to the US Attorney General? To the UN? The ACLU? 60 Minutes? What about a letter to his holiness the pope? He's a very important figure who could draw a lot of attention to Lakewood issues; does the fact that zero council members have presented documentary evidence that they appealed to the pope mean that they don't care, that they have sold out? Does this require investigation itself?

Enough. I'm all for questioning, but it's time that others who purport to feel the same way recognize the difference between serious questioning and online virtue-signalling. One involves actual communication with the people about whose activities you have concerns. The other involves posting in online forums about how "to my knowledge" they have not passed some test of integrity that is derived exclusively from popular rumor.

This doesn't seem complicated to me, but maybe that's a blind spot. If Lakewood needs some kind of workshop or seminar in how to pursue civic engagement beyond message-board polemic, I'll see what can be done.

[Mark Kindt]

This is a dead issue.

The hospital is closed.

Charity care provided by that hospital has ended.

The funds and other assets of the hospital have been liquidated and distributed to private foundations.

The city abandoned various revenue streams and beneficial contractual rights on a heavily-discounted basis.

The hospital will shortly be demolished.

The land will be given away to a developer for free.

The public interest lawyers have done their best to effect change. That effort is now over.

Experienced lawyers and former public officials have made formal written complaints to all of the relevant enforcement agencies without effect.

Thousands of paragraphs have been written about bad government here and elsewhere.

The record has been made.

I continue to write what I write because I feel duty-bound to do so as an officer of the court, as a former public official, and as a citizen.

The civic leadership has made its choice not to have a hospital in our town. That decision will never ever be investigated by the authorities.

We have witnessed and are still witnessing the most remarkable "heist" of public assets that I have ever seen.

All we can do is compile a documentary record, when we can. The backroom decisions were made years ago, the cronies used hospital money to win the elections, citizens were officially harassed, and the wrecking ball is on its way.

It's all over except for burying the "corpse". That's rumored for September.

[Michael Deneen]

It's all over except for burying the "corpse". That's rumored for September.

Unfortunately I agree with most of your post....the hospital has been killed, and the city is likely in a death spiral.

However, there is still one avenue where citizens can take action -- the ballot box.

Some of the guilty parties (Marx, Nowlin, and Bullock) have already started paying the price for their complicity.
Next year the voters will have a chance to vote out Anderson, Litten, and O'Leary....that's where our energies should be focused.
Public officials must learn that there is a price to pay for selling out their own citizens.

[Jim O'Bryan]

What about a letter to his holiness the pope? .

Matt

I am on the road today, but enjoyed your response, though there are may assumptions made that are not true.

I will address them later today, or tomorrow.

But I could be wrong, but I was not aware that his holiness the Pope ran for anything in Lakewood proclaiming that he would champion and stand for honesty, transparency or accountability.

Now I have all of the campaign literature and comments from the last couple elections, and maybe I am not on the mailing list, but I do not see anything of his Holiness the Pope running for anything in Lakewood, ever.

I would hate to think this is nothing more than a smoke screen, or over the top hyperbole to cover up or make excuses for those that have, which include: Tom Bullock, Tristan Rader, Meghan George and Dan O'Malley when he ran in the previous election.

Are you indicating that everyone on your list, which is basically everyone except those who actually ran on honesty, transparency and accountability, and or are in public office are somehow more responsible for elected officials in actions to fulfill what you seem to be indicating are empty hollow promises made to get votes instead an actual promise to the voters of Lakewood.

I would hope not, that would be a terrible way to begin a political career, just saying anything to get elected.

I am sure I am mistaken, and will reread when I am off the road.

His Holiness the Pope, that's a good one my friend. Hell if I remember correctly he was closing churches in Lakewood last time we heard from him!

.

[jkocinski]

Matt,
I asked that very same question on the deck a couple of months ago. I got basically the same response which was really a non answer. I believe (but could be wrong as no one has really answered this) that because our 2 new council members ran on the platform of open, honest, and transparent government that it was assumed that they would ask the AG or whatever governing body you would like to insert, to investigate this matter. I don't believe (but again could be wrong based on the non answer) that anyone has specifically asked our new council members to take action. I don't believe we should hold them accountable for reading the minds of the citizens of Lakewood.

[mjkuhns]

There is an abiding belief that the fate of Lakewood Hospital conceals deep, dark secrets.

Reality check:

In 2015, seven members of city council openly voted for a terrible and unnecessary deal to close the hospital and liquidate it. We know who they are, it's on the record. There's YouTube video of the meeting. No one is ever going to be able to e.g. go back and change their votes in the minutes.

In 2016, we tried to overturn that by referendum. Heaven knows I tried. At-the-time private citizen Rader tried. We failed—after people in Lakewood government dragged their feet to delay the referendum, abused citizens who had done everything right to earn the referendum, then even resorted to announcing (including on television) that only a win for them would be counted, i.e. that they would reject a win for their opponents. That's on record too.

This year, five members of city council openly voted to turn over the public's remaining hospital property to a politically connected private developer, for all of $1. Again, on record. (Council members George and Rader opposed this last one, yet the arrangement was approved anyway because two people cannot outvote five people.)

These are the major offenses, in my humble opinion. We know who committed them. We know who did not. The solution, in my humble opinion, is to vote out those who committed them, not to redirect frustration at those who didn't. That may be boring and frustrating, given that the next Lakewood election is 15 months away. I understand that.

In the meantime, there certainly is more that isn't known. There seems to be reason to think that it includes some further shameful conduct, given the determination to resist disclosure, including with a lawsuit now into, what, its third year? I think that public records of public business should be public. But Lakewood's custodian of records doesn't report to me, or to city council. Neither do appeals court judges.

Here, again: the refusal to release records and the identity of those responsible is on record.

If you think some supplementary authority has a duty to intervene, then tell them so. If they have a duty, it's a duty and their decision to perform or to evade that duty is entirely on them, not on members of Lakewood city council.

Or, you know, disregard me, disregard Mr. Kindt. Form up in a circular firing squad. See if it helps. It's likely to help someone, I'll say that much.

[Jim O'Bryan]

In 2016, we tried to overturn that by referendum. Heaven knows I tried. At-the-time private citizen Rader tried. We failed—after people in Lakewood government dragged their feet to delay the referendum, abused citizens who had done everything right to earn the referendum, then even resorted to announcing (including on television) that only a win for them would be counted, i.e. that they would reject a win for their opponents. That's on record too.

This year, five members of city council openly voted to turn over the public's remaining hospital property to a politically connected private developer, for all of $1. Again, on record. (Council members George and Rader opposed this last one, yet the arrangement was approved anyway because two people cannot outvote five people.)

These are the major offenses, in my humble opinion. We know who committed them. We know who did not. The solution, in my humble opinion, is to vote out those who committed them, not to redirect frustration at those who didn't. That may be boring and frustrating, given that the next Lakewood election is 15 months away. I understand that.

In the meantime, there certainly is more that isn't known. There seems to be reason to think that it includes some further shameful conduct, given the determination to resist disclosure, including with a lawsuit now into, what, its third year? I think that public records of public business should be public. But Lakewood's custodian of records doesn't report to me, or to city council. Neither do appeals court judges.

Here, again: the refusal to release records and the identity of those responsible is on record.

Mr. Kuhns

Please note, and for this exercise I will use a couple videos to help you understand, why I believe we need a third party to come in and give a full accounting, and why I feel it is important to get assistant from any and all elected officials that feel as I do. This would add greatly to the healing of Lakewood, and allowing us to move on together knowing we have good representation at City Hall. Somethingou and Mr. Kindt have indicated is broken far better than I.

PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO OPTION 1



OPTION 1 IN PRACTICE

Or, you know, disregard me, disregard Mr. Kindt. Form up in a circular firing squad. See if it helps. It's likely to help someone, I'll say that much.

What you are suggesting.



Back to the conversation at hand. You, Mr. Kindt, Mr. Deneman, Mr Deneen, and more than 1/2 of the city and I would say that number is growing, understand...

1) City Hall lied about and throughout the entire Hospital Liquidation.
2) City Hall gas actively covered up those documents and continue to fight in court residents right to know what happened.
3) Those people that you have indicated are part of this crime? Bad Behavior? Bad Management? will NEVER help find the truth.

With the average turn around on public documents related to Hospital or bad behavior being more than 2 years, and thousands of dollars in legal fees, intimidation and harassment.

Residents turn to those that had nothing to do with the topic(s) to help the rest of us find the truth. Something we have the right to know.

Speaking strictly for myself, I always believed the Mayor had the right to mismanage the city. I have always believed that the Mayor and cohorts had it within their means to liquidate our largest employer, our anchor in DowntowN, and squander Lakewood's health and future. The State of Ohio, and the Lakewood City Charter gives him the right to be a complete failure as Mayor.

It has also been argued the Mayor has a right to Lie, and as we are seeing on a national level, it would seem many enjoy if not preferred being lied to. So let's not even argue that point, though law would indicate that the Finance Director may not lie or create falser narratives that could effect our bond ratings, and if she did that is a crime punishable by fines and even jail time. But for the sake of this discussion let's not even look at those potential pitfalls.

We could look at Lakewood Hospital Foundation that worked with many members of the new Three Arches that worked overtime to raise money until 2015 to "Help keep Lakewood Hospital solvent," and even "Pay for Repairs and New Features" that hey were fully aware would never go to the hospital but instead into a new foundation they would end up controlling and the legality of that. But again, that merely muddies the waters for the comment, the fact, and why so many have turned to NEW MEMBERS OF COUNCIL and THOSE NOT IMPLICATED IN THE NIGHTMARE.

We, as residents have a right to know what happened, why and how. It is that simple.

Back to the videos. When residents fail to get the information and historical information (the pickle jar) we turn to others for help. I know of many that have turned to the State AG, The State Auditor, The FBI and others. Nearly all are met with the same story. Can we get proof (ie the pickles we cannot get to and are being hidden) or can we get some City Officials to go on record asking for assistance?

Now there is nothing that can be done at this late date to Save Lakewood Hospital. Years and $$$$ were wasted suing the wrong people, and looking in the wrong direction. (Please search for magic to see how many times misdirection was brought into the discussion). So when people say they tried and failed, now we should give up, I see that as people digging for gold int he wrong state, what alone the wrong area.

Which gets me back to the many discussions we have had, Mr. Kindt and I, and others have had and back to your fristrations as well as mine. When people cannot get help and people arrive on the scene claiming if they are chosen, voted for and supported they will be a champion for truth and justice, and then just stand there, it is more than a tad disappointing and will bring forward ill feelings of being duped for lack of a better word.

Behind the scenes we have been told some called, but no one has put simple questions or asks to paper, or on the record. We both know that many of those have asked for documents only to meet the same stone wall residents have, and or been lied to by other City Officials or told to stop asking. All of this indicates, City Hall was, and potentially is still very broken if you believe the work of the Mayor, the Law Director, and City Council are to help and serve the residents.

And that is something you, Mr. Kindt, Jared Denman, Mike Deneen and many many others agree on. So how does one address this problem. Walk away? Hide our heads in the sand? Act like it never happened? Or continue to ask for help in opening the pickle jar?



.

[mjkuhns]

This is the crux of this issue: what constitutes "help" vs. what constitutes virtue-signalling.

To my mind, "help" is something of substance. Something that it is reasonable to believe, based on actual evidence, would make a difference.

I have my copy of the third amended charter right here. "Article Two. Council" literally does not even contain a section dedicated to "powers of city council." Article 2 Section 1 invests council with legislative powers, and formally that's about it. Council members have the power to vote on legislation. If anyone has legislation to suggest, go to council; if they refuse to act on it, by all means make your case for why you think that's a failing on their part.

Otherwise, I will repeat that I have actively sought evidence of some real power of city council to "help" in the sense of influencing other officials, e.g. those with custodianship of city records, or with investigatory powers. All that I have so far found is negative evidence.

I invite those who have contrary evidence to present it. Cite the charter language, or the relevant section of the Ohio Revised Code, or a statement from the attorney general's office, or any reason to believe that some non-council authority delegates power over its activities to members of Lakewood city council.

Absence such evidence, the demand for "help" is literally no different from demanding that George and Rader try waving a magic wand to make all the documents public, then getting mad at them if they "refuse to help."

If people choose to do that, because they heard somewhere that magic wands work if a council member waves them—or because they simply want to see someone doing something whether or not it's substantive—so be it.

I'm going to reserve my time and energies for things which I regard as more practical. Those who feel like doing the same can count on my help. Those who don't can go right on blasting away at the two people who did use their actual powers to oppose a giveaway of public resources, instead of at e.g. the people who used their powers to support it.

Because I believe that there is far more at stake here than personal pride, I hereby and most humbly ask each of you to consider my recommendation. If I have earned any credibility in the past please consider it as a favor. If I come across as mean and impatient, please consider the substance of what I have recommended separately from your feelings about its presentation.

Thank you, I really can ask no more.

[Mark Kindt]

This Issue Is Still Dead

When the bulldozers are demolishing the hospital building and the land-grab has been completed, we will fully understand the injustice that has been done to our community. It will then be apparent to all.

Numerous and well-documented complaints from separate sources have been made to all of the possible relevant agencies, including the courts up to the appellate level. Nothing was done.

Multiple and independent efforts to involve the national media failed.

The newly-elected council members in their official roles can consider what has been done before and can intelligently evaluate whether or not a further complaint would be anything more than a symbolic gesture.

We should also remember that many individuals or entities with potential legal claims did not elect to pursue such claims in the court system when they had the opportunity to do so.

Unfortunately, the intersections of private/public partnerships are subject to abuse. One consequence is that the private partner documents (of LHA, of LHF) are not subject to disclosure under the Ohio public records laws.

Make no mistake, as a direct result of three significant public interest lawsuits and the additional efforts of the Lakewood Observer, thousands-upon-thousands of pages of documents are now publicly available.

Many documents are still the subject of litigation and some of them may become public in the future. We will see what we will see then.

[Jim O'Bryan]

This Issue Is Still Dead

Oh might as well give up and go home, and let them do as they wish.

NOT

Of all the people saying this I am shocked it is you, the history buff.

I for one am not trying to bring back any hospital, never have been. That was your cause, and you and others failed.

So now you call it game over?

How about those of us that only cared about honest transparent government continue our fight for that?

Or have you also given up on honest government?

Are you saying the new people on council with the old people on council cannot give us honest and transparent government?

If so we have a huge problem and instead of worrying about 3 council people to run out of office we have 8.

Is that what you are saying, because "give it up The issue is still dead" is somewhat vague my friend.

What issue is still dead? The Hospital staying open. YES people went after the wrong parties for years.

Honest, Transparent Government? I hope not.

Can you clarify?

Matt

You are the only one bringing up magic wands? I did not read that in any campaign literature either.

Who is asking Rader and George, and O'Malley and Bullock for anything other than what THEY PROMISED?

I am not asking them to bring the hospital back from the dead?

I am only asking them to ask the City they hold elected office in to HELP clear up the history and facts.

Is that really to big of a lift for them? To HELP residents understand?

If it is, then they should publicly admit they can get no answers from City Hall then get out of the way.

I hear BSL laws are being fought in Parma...

For the record I have been fighting for honest, transparent, accountable government long before I met any of you, and is one of the things the paper was started for.
.

[Mark Kindt]

This Issue Is Still Dead

Oh might as well give up and go home, and let them do as they wish.

NOT

Of all the people saying this I am shocked it is you, the history buff.

I for one am not trying to bring back any hospital, never have been. That was your cause, and you and others failed.

So now you call it game over?

How about those of us that only cared about honest transparent government continue our fight for that?

Or have you also given up on honest government?

Are you saying the new people on council with the old people on council cannot give us honest and transparent government?

Sir, you may take the time to read my nearly 900 posts here on the Observation Deck and the articles that I have written for the Lakewood Observer and then reach your conclusion. I have abandoned none of my positions on ethics and open government.

The issue of whether or not newly-elected council-members had a duty to pass a "litmus" test of integrity by filing a formal written complaint with other agencies is now, in my opinion, a dead issue.

There was, in fact, a better test for council-members and the only council-member that actually passed that test was former council member Ed Graham who brought suit.

At this point in time, I do not see any recourse to address the issues that we all agree are problematic, except as noted by Mr. Deneen, at the ballot box.

I compliment and have complimented both Mr. Rader and Ms. George for the merit of their vote on May 7th.

[mjkuhns]

I have explained what I would consider evidence of opportunities for substantive actions.

I have stated that I am very interested in such evidence.

Until such is offered, however, there seems to be very little more that I can say on this topic.

fwiw, I am certainly not taking an exclusively passive approach to things. I am actively looking for substantive actions. I have been researching potentially relevant examples of municipal reform, and just this morning had a productive meeting to discuss some of my reading with an experienced public servant. I intend as well to work actively toward securing four or more city council votes for substantive reforms. I work toward a better future by the means that seem most productive, to me.

As for accountability for past actions, I am in favor of this too, however the opportunities to influence this substantively right now seem faint. I quite agree with ethics experts who suggest that elections are not actually the best mechanism for policing ethics in government. But until we have a better mechanism than elections, or those which have already been tried repeatedly and have not responded, I think that preparing for the next local election is the best available means to pursue accountability (as well as to pursue the development of a better mechanism).

So that's my course. I ask, again, that people judge it favorably, but the judgment is yours to make.

Thank you.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Sir, you may take the time to read my nearly 900 posts here on the Observation Deck and the articles that I have written for the Lakewood Observer and then reach your conclusion. I have abandoned none of my positions on ethics and open government.

The issue of whether or not newly-elected council-members had a duty to pass a "litmus" test of integrity by filing a formal written complaint with other agencies is now, in my opinion, a dead issue.

There was, in fact, a better test for council-members and the only council-member that actually passed that test was former council member Ed Graham who brought suit.

At this point in time, I do not see any recourse to address the issues that we all agree are problematic, except as noted by Mr. Deneen, at the ballot box.

I compliment and have complimented both Mr. Rader and Ms. George for the merit of their vote on May 7th.

Mark

I have read your posts, we have discussed them in depth.

I would ask, who understood this whole nightmare first, and to this day I feel best?

My problem with your post and attitude on this is, fine give up, but t trying to convince others to give up is just amazing. It is like the strong man afraid the weak man could open the jar of pickles he cannot simply out of pride. We have spoken of this many times. Let them try, let them have their shot. Look no farther than what Jared Denman has done with a small handful of documents that others thought meant nothing. The difference between Jared and others, for one, he has taken the time to understand some of the players and their backgrounds, which in turn gives him a different way to look at it. He also comes from a completely different mind set and different set of values, understanding and focal point than the others before him.

One of the biggest problems with Save Lakewood Hospital was they became easy to marginalize. Because the 48% of the city that supported them never came out to show their faces and give true weight to the crowd. Dare I say the same could be true in in Columbus, a handful of people are easy to ignore, but if instead we called for the letter writing campaign, instead of, I am exhausted I am going home, you should to. Maybe with others the door would open a crack And as I have proven to you, when the door is opened a crack, the light comes pouring in and amazing things are seen and understood. One, two, three even five people open a locked door? What about 100 inspired and empowered individuals with a simple goal, the truth. A right to understand why this Mayor liquidated their most valuable asset to benefit friends.

While I have to compliment Rader and George, at this point their literature reads as false as Mayor Summers' campaign literature touting 200 million in development. Words on paper mailed to thousands mean nothing without backing them up. One of the largest problems in politics now. I believe they are called politicians. FWIW Tom Bullock said the very same things. Even down to Charlie.

I have explained what I would consider evidence of opportunities for substantive actions.

I have stated that I am very interested in such evidence.

Until such is offered, however, there seems to be very little more that I can say on this topic.

But until we have a better mechanism than elections, or those which have already been tried repeatedly and have not responded, I think that preparing for the next local election is the best available means to pursue accountability (as well as to pursue the development of a better mechanism).

So that's my course. I ask, again, that people judge it favorably, but the judgment is yours to make.

Thank you.

Matt

We have people on the inside that even have more rights to see documents and redacted documents than you or I do. We voted for them. If they are told no, then their only real recourse is to get someone that they cannot say no to to come in and look at them. This would be the State AG, the Auditor, and or the FBI.

In Strongsville it took one letter from one councilman to have the State AG's office to come in and look at documents they would not show other council people. One council person, one letter.

So to say or act like there is no relief for the things you ponder or ask for is untrue. For you to ask for something more powerful or even more ridiculous residents to step up when elected officials will not, is just not right.

In this era it has become far too easy to just put words on paper and hope that they are never brought back after the elections. It is far to easy to ride on the coattails of one minor cause while ignoring real causes and real cancers in government, and as everyday pas it becomes easier and easier to look the other way for street lights on a street, for blue bag laws than mean nothing, and to sit an wonder "what can I do, I am powerless against them."

Just like Dorthy in the Wizard of Oz, the answer is always within them, they just have to want to see it.



"Helplessly Hoping"
Helplessly hoping her harlequin hovers nearby
Awaiting a word
Gasping at glimpses of gentle true spirit he runs
Wishing he could fly
Only to trip at the sound of goodbye

Wordlessly watching he waits by the window and wonders
At the empty place inside
Heartlessly helping himself to her bad dreams he worries
Did he hear a good-bye?
Or even hello?

They are one person
They are two alone
They are three together
They are for each other

Stand by the stairway you'll see something certain to tell you
Confusion has its cost
Love isn't lying it's loose in a lady who lingers
Saying she is lost
And choking on hello

They are one person
They are two alone
They are three together
They are for each other

.

[Dan Alaimo]

I've also been frustrated by people who say online that others should do something, but don't follow up in real life. Lately I've been relegated to the same place because of a work schedule.
In some cases it's good that they don't. Some of us here are all too familiar with a local internet "personality" who occasionally acts out in real life.

Suggestion: Maybe someone could set up an informal conversation with some of the council good "guys" (with apologies to Meghan George) to discuss this. If it's an evening meeting, I'll try to be there.