Do Not Use Lakewood's Emergency Room

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Michael Deneen
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Re: Do Not Use Lakewood's Emergency Room

Postby Michael Deneen » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:46 am

Bridget Conant wrote:
As you can imagine, many of us are still trying to understand the consequences of the closure of Lakewood Hospital on our community.


And many are living with those consequences on a daily basis. Just peruse Facebook. Lots of unhappy people.


Not Jay Foran.
He's busy on the LO Facebook page "accusing" Mike Skindell of fighting the hospital closure.
Apparently Team Summers thinks that the people of Lakewood are happy with the hospital closure, and that Bullock's support of the closure will be big boost to his State Rep campaign.
Keep up the good work, Jay!


Bridget Conant
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Re: Do Not Use Lakewood's Emergency Room

Postby Bridget Conant » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:13 am

The lawsuit was about OPEN meetings and Ohio Sunshine Law violations.

How can any American defend those violations - it’s a cornerstone of our democracy.

They should move to Russia if they think it’s OK to collude in secrecy to subvert the democratic process


Bill Call
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Re: Do Not Use Lakewood's Emergency Room

Postby Bill Call » Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:07 pm

Jim O'Bryan wrote:
Bill Call wrote:Case in point. The Lakewood EMS took 8 people to area emergency rooms after the recent fire on Arliss. They did NOT take them to Lakewood.


Bill

We need to be careful here giving out medical advice. I was talking with some people, and looking through some records. Since the 90s, these people would have been taken to Metro anyway, and they certainly would have if there had been any burns. Metro is not only a level 1 trauma center, they also house the Burn Unit which gets a majority of fire/smoke people for a pretty large radius.



Thanks.

I am just pointing out that if you need emergency care you should call 911.

The people of Lakewood should be made aware that a stand alone emergency room is an emergency room in name only. No ambulance anywhere in the Country will take a patient to a stand alone emergency room. If you had a heart attack at Belle and Detroit the EMS crew would rush you to Avon or Fairview.

Emergency-room-vs-urgent-care.jpg
Emergency-room-vs-urgent-care.jpg (189.03 KiB) Viewed 5725 times


Members of Council made a big deal about demanding a stand alone ER in Lakewood. I believe the demand had more to do with politics than concerns about health care. When your average voter hears " stand aloneEmergency Room" they are thinking a place close by that will treat their stroke or heart attack. The reality is that a stand alone emergency room is a minute clinic with emergency room prices.

If you are experiencing a medical emergency call 911. If not, drive yourself to a minute clinic.


Dan Alaimo
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Re: Do Not Use Lakewood's Emergency Room

Postby Dan Alaimo » Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:53 am

Quite seriously (no ax grinding here)...

What should one go to the Lakewood Emergency Room for, and expect to be treated and released from there?
What conditions should one not go there for? That is, what symptoms to watch out for when it would be better to go direct to a hospital?

I saw the numbers David Anderson presented in another thread and that there were 30 occasions last year when patients were sent on to Fairview from the Lakewood Emergency Room. That means on 30 occasions, second ambulance rides were required that may or may not be covered by insurance, and that may or may not have been foreseen.

There are reasons to go there, and reasons not to, but what are they?

I imagine that if I slice my hand with a kitchen knife, the Lakewood Room will be able to handle it. But if I have a sudden or chronic pain in my chest or head, I need to get my ass to a hospital the quickest way possible.

I recall that awhile ago Council or someone was asked to provide such information and either refused or ignored the request.
So this information may have to come from outside the corridors or power, or of the Clinic.


“Never let a good crisis go to waste." - Winston Churchill (Quote later appropriated by Rahm Emanuel)
Bridget Conant
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Re: Do Not Use Lakewood's Emergency Room

Postby Bridget Conant » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:36 am

Dan

To clarify, Anderson says 30 PERCENT of cases transported initially to Lakewood are then sent to Fairview.

That’s a significant number. Close to ONE THIRD of patients cannot be treated at the Lakewood ER.

What does that tell you?

Just don’t waste your time at Lakewood “ER.”


Bill Call
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Re: Do Not Use Lakewood's Emergency Room

Postby Bill Call » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:23 am

Bridget Conant wrote:Dan

To clarify, Anderson says 30 PERCENT of cases transported initially to Lakewood are then sent to Fairview.

That’s a significant number. Close to ONE THIRD of patients cannot be treated at the Lakewood ER.

What does that tell you?

Just don’t waste your time at Lakewood “ER.”


So....

At least 30% of the patients taken to the Lakewood ER should have been taken to a Hospital. A skeptic might ask: Mayor Summers promised to make the Clinics new medical a building a success. He was so obsessed with that idea that he turned down other offers for the Hospital, $100 million investment from Metro and more. Is Lakewood EMS being used to pad the income of the ER?

What about the other 70% It seems they could have been treated at a urgent care clinic thereby saving thousands of dollars and hours of time.

The people who engineered the destruction of Lakewood Hospital gave a lot of thought into its destruction. It's amazing how little thought they gave to what comes after.


Dan Alaimo
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Re: Do Not Use Lakewood's Emergency Room

Postby Dan Alaimo » Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:10 pm

So again, the Lakewood ER ain't nothin', but what is it?

There are times when people will go there because it is an emergency and because it is close, and damn the expenses. However, if they can't treat the emergency, that is another matter. We need to know what they can and can't do.


“Never let a good crisis go to waste." - Winston Churchill (Quote later appropriated by Rahm Emanuel)
Bill Call
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Re: Do Not Use Lakewood's Emergency Room

Postby Bill Call » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:18 am

If you are experiencing a real emergency call 911 and ask to be taken to an ER attached to a hospital.

Stand alone ER's are minute clinics with emergency room prices.

Avoid the $12,000 bee sting:

http://wtnh.com/2018/03/19/12000-for-a- ... n-pricier/


pj bennett
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Re: Do Not Use Lakewood's Emergency Room

Postby pj bennett » Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:45 pm

Thank you for the clarification and sound advice, Bill.

I agree with you, that there is no reason to use the Lakewood ‘Emergency Room’, especially when there is an Urgent Care facility located at 11716 Detroit Ave. (The former Payless Shoe location.)

Urgent Care is open 7 days a week. While not open 24 hours, I’m of the belief, that if something happened during the night, and I was in need of immediate attention…. then, I need an Emergency Room that is within a hospital. Not an Urgent Care. Not the Lakewood 'Emergency Room'.

From what I have found out, the only services that the Lakewood ‘Emergency Room’ can provide, that the Urgent Care cannot, are a CAT scan, ultrasound (though I’m unsure if the ultrasound is actually on-site, or if it needs to be brought in) and a lab with same-day results.

Urgent Care also provides lab services, but results are next day, rather than same-day.

Urgent Care took excellent care of me, when I accidentally sheared off a part of my index finger with battery-operated garden shears.

The gap was too wide to stitch, so the physician gave my finger a local, and then proceeded to cauterize the wound with silver nitrate.

Follow-up care was provided for the following 5 weeks, until my finger was healed.
(I could have followed up with a wound care specialist, but I saw no need, as I was quite pleased with the care I was being provided.)

According to their web site, Urgent Care has medical services for cold and flu, asthma, respiratory infections, sinus infections, cuts and scrapes, migraines, burns, rashes, sprains and strains, simple fracture, digital X-ray, school physicals, sports physicals, urinary tract infections, strep, mono and lab on-site. Care for allergic reactions, a travel clinic and physical therapy services are also available.

It is my understanding, that since the Lakewood ‘Emergency Room’ cannot provide general anesthesia, no emergency surgical procedures can be performed. The Lakewood ‘Emergency Room’ will try to stabilize an individual, but the patient will still have to be transported to a hospital.

I still don’t understand why the 8 people, who suffered smoke inhalation from the fire on Arliss, were taken to Metro and Fairview. I understand that Metro is THE go-to burn unit, but I don't think these people had burns.

But, why were 4 folks taken to Fairview? Doesn’t the Lakewood ‘Emergency Room’ have the oxygen and whatever else is needed, to provide care for smoke inhalation? If not, then this Lakewood ‘Emergency Room’ is even worse than I thought.

The fees submitted to insurance (for my injury) were much lower than if I had gone to the Lakewood 'Emergency Room'. Medicare and my co-insurance paid my bills in full. There were no facility fees and no hidden costs.


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Jim O'Bryan
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Re: Do Not Use Lakewood's Emergency Room

Postby Jim O'Bryan » Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:28 pm

pj bennett wrote:I still don’t understand why the 8 people, who suffered smoke inhalation from the fire on Arliss, were taken to Metro and Fairview. I understand that Metro is THE go-to burn unit, but I don't think these people had burns.

But, why were 4 folks taken to Fairview? Doesn’t the Lakewood ‘Emergency Room’ have the oxygen and whatever else is needed, to provide care for smoke inhalation? If not, then this Lakewood ‘Emergency Room’ is even worse than I thought.



PJ

I am just taking a stab at this.

The 4 that went Fairview were not transported by Lakewood Fire Department. 2 went with Fairview Squad, and 2 with Bay Village squads as per their protocol.

The cities have different protocols, decided by their directors.


.


Jim O'Bryan
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Dan Alaimo
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Re: Do Not Use Lakewood's Emergency Room

Postby Dan Alaimo » Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:56 am

Jim O'Bryan wrote:
pj bennett wrote:I still don’t understand why the 8 people, who suffered smoke inhalation from the fire on Arliss, were taken to Metro and Fairview. I understand that Metro is THE go-to burn unit, but I don't think these people had burns.

But, why were 4 folks taken to Fairview? Doesn’t the Lakewood ‘Emergency Room’ have the oxygen and whatever else is needed, to provide care for smoke inhalation? If not, then this Lakewood ‘Emergency Room’ is even worse than I thought.



PJ

I am just taking a stab at this.

The 4 that went Fairview were not transported by Lakewood Fire Department. 2 went with Fairview Squad, and 2 with Bay Village squads as per their protocol.

The cities have different protocols, decided by their directors.


.


Or they asked to be taken elsewhere for a variety of reasons. Last year we had insurance that was Metro only (CLECare), so that was it. We changed to a broader plan, but still strongly prefer Metro. The emergency department (not a "room") is a zoo, but it is a very well protected zoo.

I acknowledge all the points made here, and I'll tell you that you probably won't find me at the Lakewood "room". I fought the fight with most of you, but again I ask, what is it good for? We should have had better, but in the end, what we have is still a net plus for Lakewood. If one is willing to brave the prices to get nearby care, what can they do without shipping you off to another hospital?
It's not nothing, so what is it?


“Never let a good crisis go to waste." - Winston Churchill (Quote later appropriated by Rahm Emanuel)
Richard Baker
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Re: Do Not Use Lakewood's Emergency Room

Postby Richard Baker » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:02 am

Replacing the mayor and all of the council followed by the replacement of all the appointed positions in the administration is the only method to break the embedded business as usual attitude in the City of Lakewood's government. I had an attorney that once told me that law is not logic and attorneys deal with law not logic. His statement has been confirmed by the councils and mayor's asinine decisions on encouraging the hospital to close. I suggest to you that you never elect any attorney regardless of their elegant speech. They make poor political leaders because most of them lack common sense or business experience.

Incidentally, a city is nothing more than a service business [governed by laws] that provides various services or ensures that the city residents have the services available they require. Including a viable hospital with a full-service emergency room for a city of 57,000 souls. Managing a city is not rocket science and you need elect council people and a mayor with good character and business sense and never elect a one issue "barking dog" candidate.


Dan Alaimo
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Re: Do Not Use Lakewood's Emergency Room

Postby Dan Alaimo » Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:37 pm

A follow up to my experience the other day with the express care of another hospital system.
I had to go for a quasi-urgent (need to see doc within week) issue, and I carefully considered the new Urgent Care in Lakewood, which has been highly recommended by so many.
I ended up going to the express care of the major hospital system because a) they had all my records, b) if there was a referral, and there was, it would be seamless within the system, c) the record would be sent to me electronically, d) I was 100% confident they could handle my condition without sending me elsewhere, and e) they had a shorter wait time.

Thinking about this in terms of the Lakewood Emergency Room, some people are going to decide to go there for many of the same reasons. They are already within the Clinic system so no need for a long intake session, and there would be a relatively seamless follow up in terms of electronic communication and referrals. The one thing they won't know is the extent of the emergency room's capabilities.

That's why I insist that, regardless of one's view of how this emergency room came about, and one's thoughts and opinions, the information about what it can and can't do needs to be made public.


“Never let a good crisis go to waste." - Winston Churchill (Quote later appropriated by Rahm Emanuel)
pj bennett
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Re: Do Not Use Lakewood's Emergency Room

Postby pj bennett » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:33 am

That's why I insist that, regardless of one's view of how this emergency room came about, and one's thoughts and opinions, the information about what it can and can't do needs to be made public.


I totally agree. The public needs to know.

Perhaps you should speak at the next city council meeting. This way, your concern will be on record. Also, try contacting someone on city council.

In speaking with others, I am surprised at the number of people, who still think that the current 'emergency' facility provides full-service, life-saving techniques. It does not. It will, however, try to stabilize the patient, and then arrange transport to a hospital.


Bill Call
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Re: Do Not Use Lakewood's Emergency Room

Postby Bill Call » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:44 am

Dan Alaimo wrote:Thinking about this in terms of the Lakewood Emergency Room, some people are going to decide to go there for many of the same reasons. They are already within the Clinic system so no need for a long intake session, and there would be a relatively seamless follow up in terms of electronic communication and referrals. The one thing they won't know is the extent of the emergency room's capabilities.



Thanks Dan. I think that is an accurate assessment.

One of the reasons for this post is to point out that using the emergency room for non emergency reasons is bad economics; bad for the individual and bad for the insurance industry. The added costs of a unneeded emergency room visit is added to the costs of everyone's insurance.

One of the many confusing aspects of the Hospital fiasco is the Mayors failure to address the healthcare needs of the community. His plans never addressed the cost of emergency room care vs. the cost of urgent care or the cost of transportation or the cost of monopoly healthcare. The stand alone emergency room is driving an increase in the use of unnecessary emergency room visits. Medicare may soon announce reductions in payments to the stand alone ER's for that reason. Insurance companies will soon follow suit.

Brecksville, Ohio (population13,500) has a University Hospital health center, a Metro Health center and a nearby Cleveland Clinic Health Center. While The UH center has a stand alone emergency room it ALSO HAS AN URGENT CARE FACILITY. People who do not need an emergency room get the advantage the lower cost of the urgent care facility.

Mayor Summers and his group of "brain stormers" never even considered that possibility. They actually worked to discourage other health care choices in Lakewood.

If you need an emergency room dial 911 and asked to be taken to an emergency room attached to a hospital.



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