RTA What the #@#$!

[Jim O'Bryan]

First they start going down our streets with "Community Circulators" little quiet 1/3 size buses. They tell us they will improve service, make life easier and better!

Instead, they travel three and four in a pack followed by the new BIGGER brother "Red Community Circulators" These 3/4 buses try to run the same the routes, and cause general tie ups on side streets.

NOW new buss stop signs are showing up on side streets that never had stops before. Right in front of private homes.

Now I watched them in the morning, afternoon and evening NO one is every really on them. What is the deal?

My thought, an op to drag Lakewood down and make it ripe for regionalism.


Jim O'Bryan

[Joe McClain]

Jim,
There just is no way to comprehend the decisions of RTA. I rode the 26 (now the 326) to the Rapid station, transferring to the Rapid to go to U. Circle. I became a buff of goofy transit.

Among the many odd ventures of RTA are:

1. The University Circle route (pay to ride RTA or wait for a Greenie and ride for free).
2. The dual-corridor initiative. (Big bucks to enhance a line between two places where nobody lives.)
3. The Waterfront Line. (sheesh)
4. The community circulators (Home of the noisy brakes).
5. Neon piping on the redone Terminal Tower platform. (It didn't last two weeks.)

I was never able to figure any of it out.
I think RTA is straight out of Orwell--the Ministry of Transportation.

[Joseph Milan]

Instead, they travel three and four in a pack followed by the new BIGGER brother "Red Community Circulators" These 3/4 buses try to run the same the routes, and cause general tie ups on side streets.

First of all, I ride and depend on RTA,as I cannot drive.
When the community circulators first started, I wrote a letter published in the Sun News complain. This attracted the attention of both Congressman Kucinich and the bosses down at RTA. Both offices called me to let me know that service out of Lakewood would not be effected.
This turned out not to be true, as, slowly but surely more circulators (with part time drivers) are replacing regular busses (with full time drivers)..

NOW new buss stop signs are showing up on side streets that never had stops before. Right in front of private homes.

The circulators are supposed to stop where ever the passenger wants to get on or off. Most of the drivers have done this since the creation of the circulator routes. The passenger simply tells the driver he wants to get off at point A and the driver lets him off. If The ciruclator is going by and one is not at a designated stop, a person can flag the bus down, just like a taxi. What's up with the new signs? I don't now, What streets are they on? Are the streets on a bus route?

Now I watched them in the morning, afternoon and evening NO one is every really on them. What is the deal?
My thought, an op to drag Lakewood down and make it ripe for regionalism.

Quite the opposite is occurring. In September, RTA consolidated some of there bus lines. Some of these busses now board people downtown, the bus gets on interstate 90, and gets off the highway at the Hilliard exit in Rocky River. This makes it harder for anyone traveling from downtown to get to Lakewood while making it easier for them to get to places further West. The same is true of busses headed for downtown. One can board some of these busses anywhere west of the I-90 Hillard exit and go downtown without ever seeing Lakewood.
This has ramifications for not only passengers who need to now transfer when before they could take one bus, but also for Lakewood businesses, as they can be skipped by for points further west or east.
Also, since the inception of the circulator, the number of real busses bringing people to and from our city has decreased. One could take a bus from downtown to the 98th street rapid, take a circulator from 98th & Detroit to 117th & Detroit, and then take another circulator from 117th to Lakewood. With the amount of time waiting to transfer from one bus to another when previously one bus would get you where you want in Lakewood, one could easily be out in Westlake and already shopping.

I said in a previous post regarding regionalism that if working with other cities is bad why not just put a dome over Lakewood and ignore the rest of the region. RTA has started that process for us. This is the reason that the circulators you are seeing are empty.

Joe Milan

[Jean Smith]

Lakewood has been a community that has thrived by having the commuter bus service. I do not drive and yes I am one of the many people in Lakewood who rely on bus service. Those 3/4 red buses are no different that those white buses except in style. Lakewood has a dense population and lots of people ride these buses.

My husband is a traffic checker for RTA and he has been doing statistical ridership counts for RTA for over 25 years. The ridership in Lakewood is up and services have been greatly improved. You say circulators ride down side streets? I think you are mistaken. The main route for these buses are Madison Ave to West 117, to lake and Nicholson and back down Lake to 117 and up to Detroit all the way to the Rocky River Bridge,
down Detroit and then up West Clifton to Madison avenue on to the 117 rapid.

Where in God's name are all these so called side streets that these buses are on driving on? Most bus stops are on main streets and rarely in front of someones home. However the Warren Road bus does have a few stops on the main streets-in front of homes (two total) but this is the exception rather than the rule.

You also say that they drive 3-4 in a row and back up traffic? Well the truth here is that the buses run every 15 minutes or so and are usually spaced apart very well, but yes traffic can get backed up, a bus can break down and there can be two buses back to back, but 3 or 4-unlikely!

It seems to me that you are someone who doesn't appreciate mass transit and has a gripe! If you have a problem with it then call RTA and voice your bias opinion. Here in Lakewood people need and use these buses and they are an asset to our community!

[Joseph Milan]

Lakewood has been a community that has thrived by having the commuter bus service. I do not drive and yes I am one of the many people in Lakewood who rely on bus service. Those 3/4 red buses are no different that those white buses except in style. Lakewood has a dense population and lots of people ride these buses.

My husband is a traffic checker for RTA and he has been doing statistical ridership counts for RTA for over 25 years. The ridership in Lakewood is up and services have been greatly improved.

While service has improved for travel within the city of Lakewood, it is not true for travel outside of Lakewood. Each day I now have to catch 3 busses with 10 - 20 minute waits in between when before I had only one brief layover in order to get to and from work on a daily basis.

I went to 2 different crowded community meetings where the biggest complaint was having to transfer to an additional bus, but the people at RTA seemed to have their minds made up before the meeting that they were going to make the changes regardless of how many people complained.

I now have to leave earlier and get home later. I have no idea how anyone can define this as improved service.

Joseph Milan

[Jean Smith]

You are certainly correct in that regard. I use to work outside of Lakewood and when they changed the 25 schedule, I too had to leave earlier and then because they cut the 25 eastbound service to every 40 minutes in Lakewood, I had to start using the rapid which put additional time down. At this time I work in Lakewood so the commuter is more beneficial for me, on the other hand for people such as yourself, your concern is quite legitimate! You do have to go out and advocate for yourself and attend the meetings. Also RTA puts money where the government gives it to them and commuter buses are what their main focus has been on lately. Continue to advocate and write about your concerns, hopefully you may be heard.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Jean and Joe

First of all some of the side streets are Fries, Rockway(possible one of the thinnest side streets in Lakewood) Larchmont, Webb Road to name a few. Please drive these streets and tell me there is room for small Criculator what alone the GIANT circulator, which Jean informs us is not a Circulator but a full sized bus disguised as a Circulator. I only notice these as it is where I walk the dog.

Jean I understand the flow of traffic and that some times A Circulator (small or GIANT) might come up to a bus, but can you really say you have NEVER seen a Bus with a Circulator in front and another right behind all running very well? Well I have one for the story I am working on. And if it was easy to get more than one photo I have to think the occurrence is not that rare.

Also in the photo you can see about 4 heads in one Circulator, abut ten in the bus, and 2 in the third. NONE were marked as training devices.

I was a fan of Circulators when they started, but they have become very run down, VERY LOUD, and very inconvenient. Now I am sure if you are not allowed to drive that you are a big fan of buses and circulators. But for those of us that lived in nice quiet peaceful areas, it is getting old, very quickly.

Joe as our resident "regionalists" that champions the case for regionalism right down to building a new county prison at Lakewood Park, I believe that you love the regional approach RTA has taken with their bus lines. I see it as just another way to push a regionalist agenda, while stealing life out of downtown Cleveland. In the old days a person would have a 30 minute layover downtown , time for a magazine, coffee, a walk through the terminal. But today you sit in a Circulator, or Bus hat stops every couple minutes, and my study show that all it saves you is a little walk, no time at all. In fact some travel time is longer.

My suggestion to RTA, get a better repair schedule, and cut back on the reduncies in the work force and on the bus lines.

But that's just me.

As for buses not stopping in front of house may I offer you the two new bus stops on West Clifton that sprang up a month ago. Nothing but $250,000 homes as far as the eye can see. RTA trashing out neighborhoods, and city while disrespecting good neighbors all in an effort to push regionalism for a very few group of money managers and miss-informed people.

FWIW


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[Grace O'Malley]

Of great interest to me is the fact that RTA adds extra buses and adjusts routes to serve the Catholic High schools (St Eds, Magniificat) in the area, yet there doesn't seem to be any plan to serve the students at Lakewood High School.

The students who take the bus walk down to Detroit or up to Madison. Wouldn't it make sense to have several Circulators at the high school at 3 PM to pick up the kids? How hard would that be to arrange? It would cut down on the congestion in front of the high school and encourage kids to take the bus instead of having parents drive them.

[Mark Schroeder]

Wow, Grace, what a great idea! Buses for students, rather than the students walking to detroit or madison.

I'm NOT being sarcastic. That makes a lot of sense to me!

[Joseph Milan]

Jean and Joe




Joe as our resident "regionalists" that champions the case for regionalism right down to building a new county prison at Lakewood Park, I believe that you love the regional approach RTA has taken with their bus lines. I see it as just another way to push a regionalist agenda, while stealing life out of downtown Cleveland. In the old days a person would have a 30 minute layover downtown , time for a magazine, coffee, a walk through the terminal. But today you sit in a Circulator, or Bus hat stops every couple minutes, and my study show that all it saves you is a little walk, no time at all. In fact some travel time is longer.

Let me get this straight. You believe on one hand that regionalism is bad. On the other hand, If RTA makes passengers layover here in Lakewood rather that downtown, that's a bad thing. If both of these things are true, you must be an advocate for downtown Cleveland rather that an advocate for Lakewood. If buying a magazine and drinking coffee downtown is a good thing, why is it a bad thing when people have to do it here in Lakewood instead.?

Joe

[Jim O'Bryan]

Let me get this straight. You believe on one hand that regionalism is bad. On the other hand, If RTA makes passengers layover here in Lakewood rather that downtown, that's a bad thing. If both of these things are true, you must be an advocate for downtown Cleveland rather that an advocate for Lakewood. If buying a magazine and drinking coffee downtown is a good thing, why is it a bad thing when people have to do it here in Lakewood instead.?

Joe

Joe

Is it not possible to want the best for Lakewood and the best for Cleveland? I do not have any trouble in my mind wanting the best for the "Region" while having a real desire to want Lakewood to be the crowning jewel surround by this "region."

Why not get a paper here in Lakewood, then if you work out of Lakewood, stop and get a coffee during you layover in downtown?

Am I twisted to think that Lakewood Library one of many Lakewood targets by regionalists is a great place to get books, see talks, meet people, and stop in at the Cleveland Library every know and then for software? Does it have to be black and white?

I will admit that I take pleasure in a challenge put forth by a friend to do as much as possible in Lakewood. But do not see the crime in leaving Lakewood to go to a souless mall like Crocker Park, or a front for China like Walmart. I am a proud Lakewoodite not a monk.

When the region is created, and Westlake reaches out to East Cleveland for a fair share of their poor, and homeless, will there be a wail built that will not Lakewoodites see the splendor of Section 8 homes within walking distance of the Faux city called Crocker Park? No. Will Lakewood if it stands on it's own not allow our Section 8 friends from Beau Village, and Rocky River into this wonderful town for concerts, parties, businesses or snake dances down Detroit. Yes.

But maybe I am a regionalist in a small way. I am heading up a group looking at legalities of annexing part of Cleveland(Edgewater Park to Villa Zapata's), and west to the other bank of The Emerald Canyon. This and the defense of this city is why The Rockport Militia was formed.

Thanks for the note.

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[Joseph Milan]

Joe

Is it not possible to want the best for Lakewood and the best for Cleveland? I do not have any trouble in my mind wanting the best for the "Region" while having a real desire to want Lakewood to be the crowning jewel surround by this "region."

Why not get a paper here in Lakewood, then if you work out of Lakewood, stop and get a coffee during you layover in downtown?

If this is what you are advocating, then you're closer to being a regionalism than you care to admit. The problem, however, with your particular brand of regionalism is that it is a lot more difficult, as government entities from different cities don't cooperate with each other as well as they could; in fact they are at odds with each other. The Westlake Mall destroyed what was westgate. The various malls the region has destroyed the Downtown Higbees, Dillards, May Company and Galleria.

This being the case, you must keep one thing in mind: as the region goes, so goes Cleveland, so goes Lakewood, so goes the rest of the county. My thoughts on regionalism were beaten down on this site. The people attacking the idea fail to realize that if our region falls, Lakewood falls with it.

That being said, this is supposed to be a post regarding RTA. The new RTA Routes bypass Lakewood for points further out and make it more difficult for people in Lakewood to get to these place. If you're truly against regionalism, this should make you happy.

Joe

[Jim O'Bryan]

Joe


I do not see regionalism or anti-regionalism to be a way to help or stop people from going to other cities. I merely see it as a way to keep what we have worked for, our schools, our library, our tax money and our identity.

I am all for cities working together to buy rock salt and asphalt.

The other day I was at a meeting hosted by Judge Pat Carroll and reported on in the Observer that looked at way of communities working together with people being arrested that had dependencies or mental issues. The idea was to get these people diagnosed before they got locked up in county. As the city has a program, this was to allow cities to share resources. As this is a step towards regionalism but allows the cities to retain their flavor and pay into the program it made sense.

What does not make sense is Lakewood paying for East Cleveland police, fire or road improvements.

I realize it is a fine line, but one that can easily be understood.


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[Joseph Milan]

Joe


I do not see regionalism or anti-regionalism to be a way to help or stop people from going to other cities. I merely see it as a way to keep what we have worked for, our schools, our library, our tax money and our identity.

Jim,

The regional county reform plan that was being considered last year would not have made any city lose its identity. It would have replaced the 3 county commissioners (who we never see and get elected by campaigning in Cleveland) with seats similar to our city's ward seats for council or the states seats for the house or senate. It would have made our elected officials more accountable to the voter. It would not have taken Lakewood's assets and replaced them with Cleveland's liabilities.

Joe

[Jim O'Bryan]

Joe


I am not looking at the first step, I am looking at the last step.

Why smoke the first cigarette, if you know the cancer is coming.


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