Charter Review Commission Report

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dl meckes
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Postby dl meckes » Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:13 pm

Jim O'Bryan wrote:Should we end the discussion while you think about it? I can see both sides in this one, and I cannot say I would start the ball rolling on the vote, but discussing it?

I don't believe I ever mentioned ending the conversation. I think putting the issue on the ballot prematurely is a bad idea.


“One of they key problems today is that politics is such a disgrace. Good people don’t go into government.”- 45
Ryan Patrick Demro
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Figure of Speech

Postby Ryan Patrick Demro » Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:48 pm

Jim,
I was using "kicked and screamed" as a figure of speech, much like "hemmed and hawwed."

Stan,
Nothing about that meeting requires exagerration. Ask Councilman Fitzgerald, he chaired the meeting and the Mayor was repeatedly declared to be out of order. Maybe we should do a Podcast on this one?


Suzanne Metelko
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Postby Suzanne Metelko » Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:17 pm

No, it was council that actually wanted to put a stop to the conversation, however, it still continues...and we are the better for it.


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Jim O'Bryan
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Re: Figure of Speech

Postby Jim O'Bryan » Sun Jun 05, 2005 8:31 am

Ryan Patrick Demro wrote:Jim,
I was using "kicked and screamed" as a figure of speech, much like "hemmed and hawwed."


Ryan

It was nice running into you at the "Raise the Roof" concert.

My point, and I am sure you understand, that one of the things all of us are trying to do that have signed on the Observer is to stick to the facts. I think this is especially important when talking about all of our elected officials, and city hall. The mayor, council, school board and many at city hall work extremely hard on various projects and come up for review or election. As you know many of the people that have dedicated their time to these jobs could make far more money in their chosen fields.

For that I am thankful, and want to keep discussion on topic and on facts.

"Kicking and Screaming" creates a very different picture than "hemmed and hawwed."

Together, we can build a better stronger Lakewood. That is the goal.

Thanks again for taking part in this discussion.

Jim O'Bryan


Ryan Patrick Demro
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I think it might be time for a Podcast

Postby Ryan Patrick Demro » Sun Jun 05, 2005 5:38 pm

Jim,
I think the audio speaks for itself and we should let the people decide. The audio is the facts, plain and simple. There isn't a soul at city hall who can hide from that. I find it to be irrelevant how many volunteer hours politicians work or how underpaid we might be, its no excuse for lousy governance and political supporters who try to sugar coat the way a public meeting actually occurred, but that is just my opinion. The engagement we have in this forum needs to be as authentic as possible if we are going to move forward as a city. This is not a political campaign website. The credibility of this venue can be jeopardized, much like that of the Sun Post, if "staffers" are distorting events. I am going to be all over it the minute someone tries to distort something that has happened at city hall. I am at least going to offer my opinion, which differs greatly from the opinion which was branded on me by other Observers. I will be more careful in the future as to word use. Remember though, you said let's stick with the facts. A sweeping statement was made about how a process occurred and the UNVERIFIED opinions of those involved. If that isn't straying from the facts I don't know what is! I think a podcast might help remove doubt in the minds of individuals. At least it would give them an idea of how the budget process shook out.


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Jim O'Bryan
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Re: I think it might be time for a Podcast

Postby Jim O'Bryan » Sun Jun 05, 2005 10:56 pm

Councilman Demro

All great points. I will address some of them. Credibility of the Lakewood Observer News Paper is paramount. As the publisher I have dedicated myself to creating a non-partisan paper for the non-partisan town.

FACTS have to rule in the Government section and School sections under the forum. This is why they are locked. The only people allowed to post are Council, the Mayor, Law Department, Mellissa Garett and our city hall reporter Stan Austin. This is to make sure the FACTS rule.

The schools section is only accessible by a very few people at the Board of Education, and School Board members. Again to make sure opinions do not mix with getting their messages out.

However the forum section, gets a little fuzzy. I see that as an area where personal beliefs can shade and color ones understanding. A person can let their background shine. Like the after church on Sunday, the club meeting, the corner bar, and or the back fence.

Broadcasting Council. I would love to do it. I would live to webcast it live, podcast it, catalog it, and even at some point go to video. I have asked Stan.

We all know that words and words alone get misunderstood. Just look at some of our discussions on-line as opposed to face to face.

Great talking face to face yesterday. It was a grand day for Lakewood.


Jim O'Bryan


Ryan Patrick Demro
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FACTS in locked sessions

Postby Ryan Patrick Demro » Mon Jun 06, 2005 8:00 am

Jim,
Just a thought here, but couldn't the facts be distorted in the locked city hall and board of education forums? Is the assumption that public officials will hold each other accountable and that will ensure the validity of the discussion? With only three (I think) public officials on the Observer and one of them posting on a regular basis, how can we ensure accountability? On another note, what do you think it will take to get wider participation from elected officials?


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Jim O'Bryan
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Re: FACTS in locked sessions

Postby Jim O'Bryan » Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:48 am

Ryan Patrick Demro wrote:Jim,
Just a thought here, but couldn't the facts be distorted in the locked city hall and board of education forums? Is the assumption that public officials will hold each other accountable and that will ensure the validity of the discussion? With only three (I think) public officials on the Observer and one of them posting on a regular basis, how can we ensure accountability? On another note, what do you think it will take to get wider participation from elected officials?


Ryan

The thought on our policy came from a conversation I had with you. And has been reenforced by conversation with other council members and school officials. The thought was to give "officials" in various areas a place to get their message out. While allowing an unobstructed view to anyone wishing to access that info.

This serves the officials, the city, the residents, and the paper. Allowing us to glean news as it comes in. Like your Good Neighbor policy and Mary Louis Madigan's Late Night Lakewood.

You would have to admit there is a little more weight given to one of your ideas for the city as told by you as opposed to being told by me for you. Your words and actions are up for a vote, mine will be judged by the advertisers and participation on the board and in the newspaper.

As for getting more involved, I think trust, respect, and a healthy learning curve will be the only things that bring others in. You and I have a history, you also have a history of supporting new technology, this allowed you to grasp the whole idea early on. But then again you were one of the people we thought of when we put this together. I have stood next to you while you have given a very positive interview only to have it appear as a bunch of disjointed sound bites. This serves no one. I hope by giving officials all the space they need, we can get a clear more positive picture of how the city is working and where it is headed.

I suspect the answer is time is what is needed most. You have signed on, Melissa Garrett has signed on, Steve Hoffert has signed on, Tom Corrigan has signed on, Mary Louise Madigan has signed on, and recently Tom George has decided to sign on. All I can do is thank everyone for trusting the process.

This week we open our bridge to Susan Adams and Dr. Estrop who have made it clear for legal reason they do not want to be on the forum, but would love to work with the News/ and newspaper part of the site. I respect that. If that is all I can get than so be it. Again time, and respect will prove if they want to continue to trust the process, the website and the members.

Ken Warren at the Library was so enthusiastic about this process that he signed on as our lead advisor immediately. He, like you have taken the lead in voicing ideas, concerns, studies and conversation. I think this will be huge for the Library in the coming years, and the city. This is great because I believe that the lifeblood of the city flows through the library or should. Lakewood Library is the one place in the city where thought and knowledge remain unbiased. We hope the paper is the second.

It is my goal to get everyone onboard by year's end if not sooner. This is not my paper, it is not your paper, it is Lakewood's paper.

Jim O'Bryan


Ryan Patrick Demro
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Observer Observations

Postby Ryan Patrick Demro » Mon Jun 06, 2005 12:23 pm

Jim,
Sounds good to me. Now let us get back to the Charter Commission discussion. I hear that there is a group out circulating petitions to put it on the ballot. Anybody have any concrete information on that?


stephen davis
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Postby stephen davis » Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:23 pm

PETITONS ALREADY?!?!?

I hope whoever is doing it has the good sense to involve City Council early. Unfortunately, there wasn't enough dialogue on this issue within the Council. I would be equally disappointed if a community initiative happened without proper discourse.

As interested as I am in exploring the Council/Manager form of government, I am not in favor of great change without broad involvement of the citizenry. The mechanics of our city government should be engineered with the help of our elected officials, if at all possible.

Transition to a new form of government would require education, cooperation, sensitivity, and commitment. Contentiousness, animosity, haste, and egos will not move Lakewood forward.


Suzanne Metelko
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Postby Suzanne Metelko » Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:10 pm

Steve,

I'm with you. The community needs a good public forum on this issue. Who can provide this? Perhaps the League of Women Voters? The pitfalls of having this become an emotional referendum could be tragic.

Suzanne


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Jim O'Bryan
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Postby Jim O'Bryan » Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:13 pm

Suzanne Metelko wrote:Steve,

I'm with you. The community needs a good public forum on this issue. Who can provide this? Perhaps the League of Women Voters? The pitfalls of having this become an emotional referendum could be tragic.

Suzanne


Suzanne

No offense, but The League of Women Voters would be good. but LO is two weeks away from being in every home in Lakewood, and online 24/7 with our open policy.

Jim O'Bryan



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