Is McDonald's REALLY best use for Detroit Theater property?

[Jim O'Bryan]

Bill,
How are the dynamics changed when you have a very, very, very motivated seller? I think that is the situation here.

Michael

Motivated by having the place on the selling block for over 3 years. This should not have
been an actual surprise. There has been talk of this property for sale for a long time here.

FWIW


.

[Michael Loje]

Jim, my question is this; When you have a seller with no ties to the community, and doesn't care what happens to the property once its sold, how does that effect the approval process?
I dont think anyone is surprised, nor do I think three years on the market is a long time for a "specialty" property. I just fear he feels this is his only chance.

[Michael Loje]

One way to look at this in a semi-positive light;
At this point, the seller is marketing this property as an empty lot.
The reported asking price has been $695,000.
The cost of leveling the building would probably be about $150-200,000.
The property looks to be about 2/3ds of an acre.
That means, in this case, that land is worth in excess of a million dollars an acre!
(assuming the owner gets close to his asking price)

[Jim O'Bryan]

Jim, my question is this; When you have a seller with no ties to the community, and doesn't care what happens to the property once its sold, how does that effect the approval process?
I dont think anyone is surprised, nor do I think three years on the market is a long time for a "specialty" property. I just fear he feels this is his only chance.

Michael

Why would any of that affect anything. This is the problem.

Why does the city have to bend because his property was/is mismanaged? Why does the
city and residents have to bend because of anything issue he has? I could see help years
ago to keep the entire project viable makes sense.

I can see possibly giving in once a person arrives who is ready to invest in the property,
but why do we have to trip over ourselves to help someone get out?

I am not opposed to something going in. I could say I am not opposed to a McDonald's
but it is not my neighborhood. So it becomes very easy for me. This to me is one of the
inherit problems with ARB, and other committees, especially when formed through political
appointments, and friendships.

I think it should be best summed up with a sign I have seen in many businesses.

Your poor planning does not constitute an emergency on my part.

.

[Rhonda loje]

Jim,
Huh?

[Jim O'Bryan]

Jim,
Huh?

Rhonda

The place has been for sale for at least three years.

Mike's answer seemed to indicate that the city should jump through hoops because
Mr. Barr was holding out for a better deal.

That was the point.

.

[J Hrlec]

Jim,
Huh?

I was thinking the same...

[Jim O'Bryan]

Jim,
Huh?

I was thinking the same...

J Hrlec/Rhonda

As response to this statement/question from Mike.

"Jim, my question is this; When you have a seller with no ties to the community, and doesn't care what happens to the property once its sold, how does that effect the approval process? I dont think anyone is surprised, nor do I think three years on the market is a long time for a "specialty" property. I just fear he feels this is his only chance."

I am not faulting Mr. Barr who I believe has ties to the community with anything.

I am talking about, drive in speakers next to the homes, etc. Does the city need to bend
to whatever just so a business or homeowner can make a sale?

I would hope not.

At the same time I asked Bill Trental since he has been on one of these boards what does
he feel the mix is. Professional who know what they are doing? Political Appointees?
Friends? Mayor X, appoints A, B, C to a board, that push rules and reason to the side. I
for one would like to know.

.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Jim,
Huh?

I was thinking the same...

J Hrlec/Rhonda

As response to this statement/question from Mike.

"Jim, my question is this; When you have a seller with no ties to the community, and doesn't care what happens to the property once its sold, how does that effect the approval process? I dont think anyone is surprised, nor do I think three years on the market is a long time for a "specialty" property. I just fear he feels this is his only chance."

I am not faulting Mr. Barr who I believe has ties to the community with anything.

I am talking about, drive in speakers next to the homes, etc. Does the city need to bend
to whatever just so a business or homeowner can make a sale?

I would hope not.

At the same time I asked Bill Trental since he has been on one of these boards what does
he feel the mix is. Professional who know what they are doing? Political Appointees?
Friends? Mayor X, appoints A, B, C to a board, that push rules and reason to the side. I
for one would like to know.

.

[Michael Loje]

Jim,
Incidentally, Rhonda did not comment here. I was on her computer. Don't blame her.
Please read my earlier comment again, slowly. And let me rephrase it. I believe the owner will try to RAMROD(force) this sale. Once that occurs, McDonalds, who has deep pockets when it comes to litigation, will try to RAMROD(force) it through the approval process. What can we do to slow it down?

[Jim O'Bryan]

Jim,
Incidentally, Rhonda did not comment here. I was on her computer. Don't blame her.
Please read my earlier comment again, slowly. And let me rephrase it. I believe the owner will try to RAMROD(force) this sale. Once that occurs, McDonalds, who has deep pockets when it comes to litigation, will try to RAMROD(force) it through the approval process. What can we do to slow it down?

Don't blame anyone, ever.

All we have it would seem is zoning regs, building regs, the ARB, Council, Mayor, and our voice.

This is why it would make sense to understand how these committees are staffed. I know
they are all very good meaning citizens. I realize they are giving their time, and I am
appreciative of it. But are they more political appointments, friends, volunteers, professionals?

Curious, not to find fault, but to understand.

.

[J Hrlec]

Jim,
Incidentally, Rhonda did not comment here. I was on her computer. Don't blame her.
Please read my earlier comment again, slowly. And let me rephrase it. I believe the owner will try to RAMROD(force) this sale. Once that occurs, McDonalds, who has deep pockets when it comes to litigation, will try to RAMROD(force) it through the approval process. What can we do to slow it down?

Buy the building and/or outbid Mcd's

[Jim O'Bryan]

Jim,
Incidentally, Rhonda did not comment here. I was on her computer. Don't blame her.
Please read my earlier comment again, slowly. And let me rephrase it. I believe the owner will try to RAMROD(force) this sale. Once that occurs, McDonalds, who has deep pockets when it comes to litigation, will try to RAMROD(force) it through the approval process. What can we do to slow it down?

Buy the building and/or outbid Mcd's

J Hrlec

I was talking to a repatriated Lakewoodite. Someone who moved away, started a fantastic
beautiful business, received very little local support, until he announced closing. By that time
his house in his new neighborhood was up for sale, he had looked back to Lakewood, sold
everything off, and is now moving back to Lakewood.

Instead of the upturn in interest on the Detroit. We wondered how many tickets he would
have had to sell a show to stay viable. How many Big Macs sold on Sloane right now would
make the McDonald's owner think, hmmmmmmmmmm maybe I should stay? It almost
makes more sense to support what we want to keep here, maybe even more than we
need if we want them to stay around.

I always look at the Beck, we all want it here, but between the moments of having to close
or move, how many of us go there? Nikos? etc.

In the end you are right, put up or shut up.

But it does make for an interesting conversation about the bigger picture of how our
community thinks, works, plays and lives.

.

[Michael Loje]

Jim, it comes down to this. Do people really want to buy what you are selling? Do people know you are there? Does your product or service have appeal beyond Lakewood borders?
That is important. Is Walmart selling or likely to sell your product? Those are things that fledgling operators sometimes ignore. For instance, opening a bookstore just aimed at local residents probably won't work.
My guess would be the McD franchisee is not looking for additional Lakewood clientele. We already know he's there. He is looking for the "out of town" impulse buyers who are most likely to travel Detroit rather than Sloane. And, traffic is greater on Detroit.
As for your repatriated friend, what type of business do they have? Why would announcing they are closing increase their business? Will they do something similar here?

[Jim O'Bryan]

Jim, it comes down to this. Do people really want to buy what you are selling? Do people know you are there? Does your product or service have appeal beyond Lakewood borders?
That is important. Is Walmart selling or likely to sell your product? Those are things that fledgling operators sometimes ignore. For instance, opening a bookstore just aimed at local residents probably won't work.
My guess would be the McD franchisee is not looking for additional Lakewood clientele. We already know he's there. He is looking for the "out of town" impulse buyers who are most likely to travel Detroit rather than Sloane. And, traffic is greater on Detroit.
As for your repatriated friend, what type of business do they have? Why would announcing they are closing increase their business? Will they do something similar here?

Michael

This is Lakewood my friend, common sense and business savvy must be thrown out the
window. This is the town, where you can drag a horse to water, show them the water,
put their face in the water, open their mouths and place water in it, only to have it spit
back out, until they are going to die of dehydration then and only then will they turn and
ask, "Why didn't you tell me there was water here?"

There is very little common sense or business sense here. It is a city of, I have a great
idea for you to do to help me, but please do not ask me to do anything, as I am the one
in need of the help.

As for my friend, I am not sure what he and his family will do. Frank owned and started
Manja on Madison. Sold and moved to the promised land of Collinwood. Opened Collinwood
Cafe, right next to Collinwood Arts. Beautiful place, great location, neighborhood embraced
Frank and family and talked him up, but it business was slow. The promised land was not
so full of promise* and he decided to close. It was at that point everyone said "How sad
it was he was closing, and we must do something..." My generally thought was talk, does
not always translate into bank deposits. Frank has bought and moved back to Lakewood,
I would love to see him do something here again, but who knows. I am glad he and his
family moved back, good people, good neighbors.*

We can go through many issues, Frank prices, menu, liquor, delusions of what Collinwood
is or wants to be, etc. The fact is, Collinwood Cafe had a lot going for it. Still, it was not
until it was leaving that people went ohhhhh we must save it. With Frank's help they did,
it is now the Collinwood Arts Cafe, and Frank proving his value as a neighbor worked hard
to make the transformation seamless and easy. However, I am watching the very same
thing happen to it right now. The same cycle. So it will be interesting.

As Bryan Schwegler so often says, it is up to the business to make people want to go there
and in the world of commercialism and free market it is true. But then we could have other
influences causing the problems, and the business takes the hit not because of themselves
but because of what happens around them. Other businesses rely on the romance of the
minute like the Beck Center. Quality of plays up, Scott Spence one of the best directors in
the state, art, cafe, classes better then ever. We all want to save it, we all want to keep it,
but do we all want to go? Or go enough to keep it viable. The same is with restaurants
right now in Lakewood. As the new taste on the Detroit Chow Line pops up, older more
established restaurants end up losing a little as new ones succeed a little. While it is the nature
of things, it does effect a community and what is there. The new girl/guy always looks more
interesting than what you are familiar with. In Lakewood any month in the black is a great
month. People do not realize how tight margins are, it does not take much to cause even
a successful business to say, "Why?" To my knowledge Three Birds was doing fine, owner
sells.

I suppose I am not really lamenting the flow and the change as much as wondering why
it happens. Or how it causes so much expenditure of emotion, and clash of people. As you
point out, Go to WalMart, Builder Square, and merely talk about Lakewood Hardware, and
Lakewood Hardware fails. One must go to Lakewood Hardware and buy, if a person wants
the great service Glen offers. The truth is, one might have to pay 5% even 10% more for
caulk, if they want to keep the ability to buy screws one at a time.

As others have said. If you can outbid McDonald's then you can get the theater. It just
seems a little hap hazard for me.

* I place this in, as a disclaimer. Whenever I post what could be construed by small
minded people as negative comments of another city. We have one Lakewoodite using
faux names mailing those comments to other Observer papers, saying "see Jim hates
you and is playing you for fools." This would be because that person has some deep
seated hatred, and true lack of honesty in their city, their neighbors, in me, and in
themselves. Simply put terribly unhappy with their lives in general. The fact is while I
like most communities in this county, and all over. I LOVE LAKEWOOD. When I mention
Crocker Park is soulless, it is not to pick on them, it is because I am being critical of the
hundreds of empty homes and apartments there. That it is the dream of one person, Bob
Stark, a man I admire, but it reminds me of Hershey, PA.. I do not hate Crocker Park, I
do go there occasionally, if that is what a person wants they should go there. I would say
I am far more critical of the city I love, Lakewood than these other cities. Adults, sane
adults would understand this and why, small minded people filled with hate, would be
incapable and would work to marginalize the project. The project is, each project owned
by people that live in each city, and they can decide what is best for their city. It is not a
large national multi-million dollar company telling you they "are local" it is local owned,
operated, and in the end answers to the community it is in. Very simple concept, one seat
at the table for all. To that point, if they tell you they are banned, they are liars. If they
say their account was shut down while we ask them to talk to one of the advisory board
about their "games." It might be true for 6 people in a city of 51,000.

Sorry did not mean to rattle on, but...

peace