The Observation Deck

That's a nice story, Jim. Of course, the developer went above and beyond in many cases, but let's not believe that many of the design decisions people are happy with at CVS were benevolent and being a good neighbor on the developer's behalf. I think you might be able to find the original renderings from the proposed plans somewhere online on Lakewood's city site that vary from the final product. Were you present at any of the CVS focused Planning Commission or ABR meetings?

The only 'inside knowledge' I possess regarding the ABR is how it works... and when they meet since I have to pick up our kids and make dinner on those nights. I am sure you know that my husband is the current chairperson. And as we are both architects, we do discuss and critique buildings and design decisions within Lakewood city limits. I do not ask him about the projects or have discussions with him about them until they are done. Additionally, we do not always share the same opinions on things so we just don't go there. Whenever I post on here, I am doing so from a position as a citizen with access to the same information as every other citizen does. I have no insider track.

I agree with you on the apartment building's import towards shielding the street from the commercial site. Unfortunately, due to Lakewood's zoning codes, there is little chance that it wil remain. The building was bought through a private real estate transaction, so ownership is now in the hands of the DM developer. What Lakewood's code says is that that residential parcel can be used through conditional use. It is not re-zoned as commercial. It stays residential, but the site directly adjacent to a commercially zoned property can be used in this conditional manner for parking or landscaping. No part of the building can be on that parcel. The zoning laws are very clear that this is allowed.

Regarding the lights, CVS may have sprung for shielded lights that were beyond what they needed to do. I do not know what the specification is on these. But gone are the days where any commercial property can put up energy hogging lights on a 40 foot pole that are on at all hours (see abandoned Spitzer lot). These types of lights (shielded for minimal throw, on timers) are de rigeur for sites near densely populated areas. They really are not anything special.

Forgot to address this part. While a new DM is not ideal, I don't think the current alternative, an abandoned car dealership, is either. The owner of the home on Cohassett directly behind Ganley was very vocal at the informational meeting on May 17th in favor of the project. She said she's been dealing with Ganley leaving the site derelict for the last few years and things like random people urinating or dealing drugs behind the building.

Do I think they can be more sensitive related to the parking lot and the size of the building to make people feel better about it? Absolutely. Do I want the apartment building and house to stay? Definitely.

But it is a commercially zoned site. And something is going to get built. And the east end of Lakewood has a blessing/curse thing going on in that these available sites are pretty large. It stands to reason that businesses with larger footprints (DM) versus a smaller one (CVS) would be attracted to these sites. DM wants to build a 25K sf building to compete with Giant Eagle. They are not looking to compete with CVS.

Thank you for saying this.

As I have been reading this thread, one point that seems to fail to have been made is that Drug Mart, even though not ideal, is still clearly preferable to an empty car dealership. Sadly, the situation in Lakewood with the empty storefronts doesn't afford us the luxury of being as picky as people on this thread would like to be. I would think that the priority would be to get viable businesses into visible locations and proceed from there. You can get picky about stores when Lakewood has fewer empty storefronts.

_________________
I'm reading about myself sitting in a laundromat, reading about myself sitting in a laundromat, reading about myself...my head hurts.

I would agree with those statements.

I do believe it would be worth trying to "save" certain surrounding properties (where legal) but I would not consider it a factor for stopping the improvement of occupying a vacant lot and changing a old run down location with a new one.

Patience is a virtue, that comes very slowly to a person, especially the young that see a
couple years as 1/10th of their lives.

I can make a million comments that would prove each and everyone is worse than an
empty lot. I bet I can give that resident, many reasons as well.My question to the resident
that lives right behind the lot is this one of the pieces of land that is being acquired?

Not faulting DM for moving from their run down property. Well one might ask, why is that
property run down? After all the only business I have ever seen in it was Drug Mart. Then
we have the issue that some business attracts business, while others do not. I remember
talking to a person of the FitzGerald administration about Hot Sauce Williams looking for a
place on the Westside, and they would be great at Maria's or IHOP. I got a pretty good
lecture at that time about what the wrong business would do to a neighborhood and a
town. Just the other day I was talking with a county administrator of sorts, about a
business I new that was looking to go into that neighborhood. Ironically, they would have
needed a lot of space. Probably from the 5 O'clock down to the Phantasy, and back at least
to the apartments. The response was, that sounds great, but not down there, the east side
is terrible, you need that in DowntowN! I mentioned as it was a "destination" business,
doesn't it make sense to use it to improve an entire area? He shook his head.

I might be wrong, but with DM moving 8 block west, I would imagine that most of their
business, will follow it. I might be wrong, but I do think the chances of being involved in a
violent crime peaks in Lakewood at their parking lot, if I remember my facts straight from
my police ride-along. Will that go with it, or does that stay at our new clothing store?

The single big cry from the WestEnd Debacle (Jay Foran's term) was "Responsible
development that respected the neighborhoods, and added to our value as a community."

If we can say no to tattoo parlors and strip clubs then I have to believe we can say no
to most bad things if we do it before they get here. Councilman Anderson's drive-thru
legislation has slowed drive-thrus in Lakewood while it is being studied.

No matter DM is done.

On to the next ribbon cutting on something else totally underwhelming. Say cheese!
Government cheese that is.

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_________________
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident

"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg

"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama

Dru Siley just sent this email to those who attended the informational meeting. Looks like the house on Grace is off the table. The apartment is still in:

Well, clearly, the rest of us younger folk lack virture, patience, or foresight in this matter. That is obviously the issue here. I have plenty of patience, but I also have a different understanding or view than you. Doesn't make mine wrong or misguided. I have also lived in other cities and have a different view of the 'changes' that people who might have lived in Lakewood their whole lives might look at in a different light.

To be clear, the person I referenced whose property is adjacent to the Ganley site that is in favor of the DM is not one being acquired for this development.

But Jim, you are speaking out of both sides of your mouth here. First, you talk about perceived discrimination related to Hot Sauce Williams and how wrong that was. And in the next breath, you refer to crime and the clientele following the move of Drug Mart deeper into Lakewood. Can you point to some data that shows this violent crime you are referring to happening at the current Drug Mart site? It sickens me to hear people say no to things like DM because they don't want 'those people' and 'people from Cleveland' going there. We all know what they are trying to say and it's gross.

Also, you cannot equate a strip club usage with a drug store usage. Apples and oranges. Same with the West End and this.

I just wanted to revisit this comment, whether you believe it to be true or not. And I am not just referring to CVS, here. It's hilarious to me that when something goes right with a development like this, it's obviously the developer or owner that gets the credit, and cannot possibly be the doings of the city. But when it is something bad or wrong that everyone hates, the City itself or Planning or the ABR is completely to blame for it. Typical.

It's the same song and dance when people say "the city should say no!" or the "city should do this" by the same people who are the first to freak out when the city steps in and gets all up in their business when they try to put up fur-clad shed in their front yard or run a hair salon out of their house. (Not actual occurrences- exaggerated)

Val

I am not talking out of both sides of my mouth.

I did not say Hot Sauce brought crime with them? Far from it. With the exception of the
father being shot at one of the locations decades ago, I have found the family to be a
great part of every community and neighborhood they are in. It was the now county
person that was worried about "those people."

As for DM current parking lot, those are numbers happening there, while they may head
north to CVS, it would be just as easy to head west. Now a good many of those crimes
could be friend on friend, not crime of opportunity.

As for the ARB I hope you two talk, you seem knowledgeable, and I have to figure your
husband probably is too. But the ARB didn't demand a lit walkway? They didn't demand,
extra parking for civic events and the library, they didn't ask for the lights to be shielded,
then didn't ask for the extra 20% over what was required swails for run-offs, they didn't
ask them to incorporate old parts of the church into the new building? To my limited
knowledge it would seem all the city did was demand they put it right to the corner so
that the Library and art would be blocked, and no room for walking or biking.

As for opinions and beliefs in commercial development. We all have views, we all have
rights to these views, and we all have favorite things. Doesn't make any of them right or
wrong, just different, and that is why we built the deck, to kick these thoughts around
maybe even straighten out mistruths, and build consciences while helping to define the
brand known as Lakewood. However, do we see DM, Family Dollar, Value Mart as city
builders, or fillers? Dream tenants or tenants? As I often say, right now we are in a very
depressed area, but we are consistently rated the best in that area, so I believe we can
afford to be a little more picky.

Valerie, I do not have the answers, just my beliefs, and what I know and have gone
through. When I stood at the brow of your street and looked north at 9pm on a summer's
night I was taken back on just how dark, and quiet the street was. You could hear
neighbors on porches talking, and kids playing. I appreciate you being willing to take one
for the team. I was handing out pro-WestEnd brochures, willing to do the same, until I
took the time to check their facts, and no this is not the WestEnd. As you point out, they
legally bought the property and I believe that property adjunct to commercial property
can be made into commercial property very easily. So it is all very legal.

It is nice to know your friend is pro-DM even though she will not benefit.

But I cannot help but stop and think, residents taking another for the team. Devaluing
residential property and living for business. It is almost as if, they put no value on the
great little neighborhoods in the middle of Lakewood.

At the same time, this article would underline over "designing communities"
http://www.salon.com/2012/05/19/urban_entertainment_districts_blocks_where_no_one_has_fun/singleton/


.

_________________
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident

"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg

"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama

Great points

Jim, I think that you are kind of all over the place but here are my thoughts on your last post:


I am not talking out of both sides of my mouth.

I did not say Hot Sauce brought crime with them? Far from it. With the exception of the
father being shot at one of the locations decades ago, I have found the family to be a
great part of every community and neighborhood they are in. It was the now county
person that was worried about "those people."

I did not say that you alluded to HSW bringing crime. You did allude to DM"s move potentially doing that. I am saying that both you and the county person are wrong in making those insinuations. I do love hearing about your police ride alongs. "Hey, I am in Birdtown and I didn't get shot!" That always does wonders for the rest of Lakewood's perception of my end of town.

As for DM current parking lot, those are numbers happening there, while they may head
north to CVS, it would be just as easy to head west. Now a good many of those crimes
could be friend on friend, not crime of opportunity.

Which you do not know. Again, assumptions to incite fear. In another thread on this topic, someone said, "nearby housing values will go down with this development." Conjecture. Pure and simple. Show me the data.

As for the ARB I hope you two talk, you seem knowledgeable, and I have to figure your
husband probably is too. But the ARB didn't demand a lit walkway? They didn't demand,
extra parking for civic events and the library, they didn't ask for the lights to be shielded,
then didn't ask for the extra 20% over what was required swails for run-offs, they didn't
ask them to incorporate old parts of the church into the new building? To my limited
knowledge it would seem all the city did was demand they put it right to the corner so
that the Library and art would be blocked, and no room for walking or biking.

I've already had this discussion with you about the siting and how horrible it was for blocking art (your opinion) and I did not ask what the ABR did and did not ask for from the CVS developers. You are correct in that their power is limited. They cannot hold up the approval of a building, for example, until they agree to put in a bike path or a "20% BIGGER SWALE!!!" as those are not required by code. They can suggest things like these. I believe that the ABR does a lot of intangibles to shape these buildings to make them more successful that most people do not pick up on (scale, materials, etc...) that might not have been otherwise employed. So, you'd be ok with CVS if the building itself was a total eyesore but had a sweet bike path? Got it. Like I said before, shielded lights are fairly standard, but yeah.. Again, I was not at those discussions. Were you?

However, do we see DM, Family Dollar, Value Mart as city
builders, or fillers? Dream tenants or tenants? As I often say, right now we are in a very
depressed area, but we are consistently rated the best in that area, so I believe we can
afford to be a little more picky.

What can we afford? Does the city own that lot and call the shots on it? Yes, we are in a very depressed area. Commercial development is still in a downtown. Our housing values are low just like most areas in this region. How do you think this affords us anything?

But again, what would you LIKE the city to do? The DM developer purchased the Ganley lot under a private real estate transaction. Zoning ALLOWS it to be used for many purposes, one of which is a grocery or drug store. Do you want the city to tell that private developer, "Hey, no, we dont like your business, so you cant put that here?" Can you say 'lawsuit that would bleed this city dry?' If you want this changed, run for office...., or keep railing about it on a website. That always affects change.

When I stood at the brow of your street and looked north at 9pm on a summer's
night I was taken back on just how dark, and quiet the street was. You could hear
neighbors on porches talking, and kids playing. I appreciate you being willing to take one
for the team.

I'm not taking anything for the team. While it is not my street, I feel affected in the plans of this proposed development. Again, I respect DM's right to build on that commercial lot. When we buy houses in most Lakewood areas, we know what we are getting into. Detroit and Madison are commercially zoned. You can accept that or not live near either street. When Ganley was there, their garage was loud and dirty. People doing test drives would tear up and down our streets. Yet, somehow that was more quaint or acceptable? My issue is the encroachment of the commercial site INTO Grace. I think that is ill-conceived. And THAT affects all of the streets in Lakewood. It sets a bad precedent.

I was handing out pro-WestEnd brochures, willing to do the same, until I
took the time to check their facts, and no this is not the WestEnd. As you point out, they
legally bought the property and I believe that property adjunct to commercial property
can be made into commercial property very easily. So it is all very legal.

Please check your West End tinfoil hat at the door. I am not schilling for DM. Far from it. But I am being a realist about it.

It is nice to know your friend is pro-DM even though she will not benefit.

I do not know this woman. Just to be clear.

But I cannot help but stop and think, residents taking another for the team. Devaluing
residential property and living for business. It is almost as if, they put no value on the
great little neighborhoods in the middle of Lakewood.

I don't disagree. I hear so many people talk about the east side (past Bunts) as 'the ghetto.' And Grace/Cohassett/Clarence are gorgeous and should be more recognized for the gems that they are. Can they be protected? Yes, but it will take years. Personally, I would rather have a DM that closes at 9pm than a loud bar that is open until 3 am, with their patrons relieving themselves in my yard on the way to their car. I know a few people on the west side of Lakewood who deal with stuff like this.


At the same time, this article would underline over "designing communities"
http://www.salon.com/2012/05/19/urban_entertainment_districts_blocks_where_no_one_has_fun/singleton/

I do not know how Dallas's newest lifestyle center has anything to do with a Drug Mart in Lakewood, Ohio. I have been to Dallas many times. Even lived there for a while. It is mostly sprawl, overdevelopment, and in cases like these, simulacra.

Valerie

Maybe I was, on deadline for two projects, and was just in another accident.

No matter, the story above has a direct impact on Lakewood, if you had read it. It
mentions one area getting it right is Cuddell/Gordon Square. Well we just got Ian
Andrews from Detroit Shoreway West, and Hillary was there for years.

FWIW

PS - I didn't think you were shilling for DM.

It should be pointed out that the head of the CVS job lives on Arthur, which is another
reason so much care was taken at every phase.

.

_________________
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident

"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg

"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama

Dear Neighbors-

I wanted to touch base with the neighbors on Grace and Cohassett and provide some updated information about the project proposal and dispel some rumors currently circulating.

I am using as a baseline distribution list the e-mails of those who attended the May 16th Town Hall meeting at City Hall regarding this project. Please feel free to share and circulate this message as you see fit.

1425 Grace – the white house

I know there is concern about the dumpster in the driveway and that the house is being stripped of fixtures and woodwork. This is not the case. The dumpster was placed by the owners as part of their clean out of the attic, garage and basement of many years of stuff. This is a clean out and not a salvage situation. I asked one of our building inspectors to stop by the house yesterday and he was able to confirm that this was the case. We will continue to monitor the activity.

More importantly, the proposal for Discount Drugmart will no longer include a request to demolish 1425 Grace. As I explained at the May 16th meeting, though this was proposed by the developer, the removal of the house would not meet the criteria in the code, would not have been supported by the administration and would likely never be approved by the Planning Commission (I use the word likely because I would not presume to speak for the Planning Commissioners). The developer withdrew that item from the proposal and is revising the project plans.

With this news we referred both the current owners of 1425 Grace and representatives of Discount Drug to the Cleveland Restoration Society for technical assistance so all parties clearly understand the scope, opportunities and resources that might be available for a much needed rehab of that house. We referred both parties because I am not sure at this time who will have final ownership of the 1425 Grace property – see below.

Planning Commission – June 7th, 7:00 p.m. – City Hall Auditorium

The developer is currently revising the site plan, parking plan and building design to reflect the changes and still plans to be in front of the Planning Commission and the Architectural Board of Review in June. The project proposal  dealing with land use that will be presented at the PC on June 7th will still include the apartment building at 1419 Grace and will also outline a request to include the northern 13.5 feet of the 1425 Grace lot. Attached is a graphic I received yesterday that shows this request.

I know this revised proposal still begs a number of questions.  The Planning Commission hearing will be an opportunity to ask those questions publically and on the record. I hope to see you all there on June 7th.  As always, I am available by phone or e-mail.

I will keep you posted as updated information becomes available.

Best,

Dru

Dru Siley, Director
Department of Planning and Development &
Division of Housing and Building
City of Lakewood
p. 216.529.6634
f. 216.529.5936
<mailto:dru.siley@lakewoodoh.net>dru.siley@lakewoodoh.net
<http://www.onelakewood.com/>www.onelakewood.com



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_________________
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident

"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg

"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama

Posted Dru's letter yesterday, but forgot the new plan.

Valerie

Thank you, yesterday was not my best day for being together.

peace

_________________
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident

"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg

"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama