Train danger heads-up

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Dan Alaimo
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Train danger heads-up

Postby Dan Alaimo » Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:22 pm

A head's up that the disaster unfolding in the northeastern part of Ohio involves the same or similar trains that run through Lakewood. I used to live 12 houses north of the tracks and now live a slightly longer distance south of the same train line.
I know that this has been discussed and investigated before, so please refresh me:
-- what is the danger to us from the train cargo?
-- what has been done before to make the situation safer?
-- what can be done now?
-- OR, ix it even possible for citizens to change the policies of the train systems?

I recall a message a long while back from the previous mayor that started by praising the railroads' great contribution to our culture. Very nice, but beside the point. I believe we have a right to be concerned.


“Never let a good crisis go to waste." - Winston Churchill (Quote later appropriated by Rahm Emanuel)
Richard Baker
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Re: Train danger heads-up

Postby Richard Baker » Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:35 pm

Trains are regulated by the Federal Railroad Administration. The city nor the state has authority over what and how cargo is transported by rail. I believe Dennis Kasanich as as state representative wanted them to stop blowing the required horns at each crossing in Lakewood because of the signal lights, they refused. The major danger to the public is due to drivers or pedestrians ignoring the train crossing signals and horn, crossing without looking. In 2019 862 people were killed at railroad crossing in the US. Since all the Lakewoods crossings have signal at them, any crossing accident would be caused by drivers or people ignoring them, unless the signals failed. You will need to contact the Federal Railroad Administration who creates and enforces rail safety regulations, administers rail funding, and researches rail improvement strategies and technologies about your concerns.


Dan Alaimo
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Re: Train danger heads-up

Postby Dan Alaimo » Sun Feb 12, 2023 6:01 pm

It surprises me that this line of discussion has not gained more traction. The train accident east of here was a catastrophe that not only could happen here, but with the passing of time, WILL happen here.

I recall walking the dogs along the fence and train tracks in Kauffman Park and seeing tanker car after tanker car with unknown contents rumbling by. Now we know what the contents of many of those tankers are, and it's really bad stuff.

I understand the railroad bureaucracy is an impenetrable monolith, but if we start complaining, and our elected representatives complain loud and long enough, maybe we can get some action like rerouting the hazardous content.

This affects all the West Shore communities.


“Never let a good crisis go to waste." - Winston Churchill (Quote later appropriated by Rahm Emanuel)
Mark Kindt
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Re: Train danger heads-up

Postby Mark Kindt » Mon Feb 13, 2023 10:05 am

I hesitate to write on this topic.

Why? Because I will be accused of dragging the hospital issue into it.

Here goes:

Collectively as a polity the decision was made to demolish (2018-2019) the one facility most crucial to any emergency response to a severe rail accident, like the one that recently occurred elsewhere in Ohio.

When handed the challenge, the City of Lakewood bailed on even the idea of having a having a hospital at Detroit and Belle.

We can all bear witness to this. It remains an epic disgrace for our community and its elected representatives.

No hospital. No health department. More bars.

We all know that the City of Lakewood was not and will not be prepared for a significant public health disaster.

We learned that lesson in 2020.

We all can write chapter and verse on this for the past decade.

Even the proposed "Build Lakewood" development, funky as it was, collapsed when the ex-mayor's crony pulled-out because the site was too polluted.


pj bennett
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Re: Train danger heads-up

Postby pj bennett » Mon Feb 13, 2023 4:25 pm

The train accident that occurred in E. Palestine was indeed horrifying. If the same was to occur in Lakewood and an evacuation was ordered, I can’t imagine 50,000 + people making a mass exit.

I wonder, what was the route that the train took?
Did it travel through Lakewood or any other western suburbs?

Are there any rules or guidelines as to which toxic chemicals are allowed to travel through heavily populated areas?

I contacted Council-At-Large Tristan Rader about my concerns, and I’m hoping, that he’ll be able get some information.

Regulations can be changed, be they on the federal, state or city level. It’s a matter of finding the way through all the bureaucracy and weaving around everyone standing in the way. That’s all.


Dan Alaimo
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Re: Train danger heads-up

Postby Dan Alaimo » Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:37 pm

I was on the same side as you on the hospital, but the issues are unrelated.

As I wait for a confirmation of concern over the issue, I'm reminded that a) this is an environmental issue, and 2) there are many professed environmentalists in Lakewood. Can anyone else see that this is more of an existential threat to our local environmet than plastic bags?

This YouTube clip is from "Beau of the Fifth Column." He generally makes a good deal of sense to me and is aligned with the political and societal vews many in Lakewood hold.. At the end he refers to it happening to another small community.
https://youtu.be/D1BByT564pk


“Never let a good crisis go to waste." - Winston Churchill (Quote later appropriated by Rahm Emanuel)
Mark Kindt
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Re: Train danger heads-up

Postby Mark Kindt » Tue Feb 14, 2023 10:22 am

An image from over the wreckage:

East Palestine, Ohio.jpg
East Palestine, Ohio.jpg (70.87 KiB) Viewed 4026 times


Mark Kindt
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Re: Train danger heads-up

Postby Mark Kindt » Wed Feb 15, 2023 9:48 am

Any industrial scale accident like this in or near an urban area like Lakewood would require a regional public safety response and could/would be a disaster of immense proportion regardless of its potential long-term environmental or health impacts.

There is very good reporting this week in almost all major news sources on the events in East Palestine Ohio. I went through a variety of them yesterday.

"EHS" (Environment, Health, and Safety) is and should be the primary performance criteria for any industrial activity -- manufacturing, trucking, or rail.

I am always available to discuss environmental issues when needed.

I recommend that you search the term "Envirotec" on Google or Bing for a better drone photo and an authoritative article.


Dan Alaimo
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Re: Train danger heads-up

Postby Dan Alaimo » Wed Feb 15, 2023 11:08 am

Jon Srewart is on it. Local representatives, not so much.
https://youtu.be/O8Jrk6fvmQ8

Partially at fault, Civil War-era brakes on the trains.


“Never let a good crisis go to waste." - Winston Churchill (Quote later appropriated by Rahm Emanuel)
pj bennett
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Re: Train danger heads-up

Postby pj bennett » Wed Feb 15, 2023 6:08 pm

Dan Alaimo wrote:Jon Srewart is on it. Local representatives, not so much.
https://youtu.be/O8Jrk6fvmQ8

Partially at fault, Civil War-era brakes on the trains.


Thank you for posting this link, Dan.

I watched it from beginning to end and was impressed with the folks, who were a part of the discussion.

Interesting to learn, that the train, and others, have been running with Civil War era brakes. And then, there’s the politics involved. Sickening.

I hope everyone takes the time to watch this, because this disaster could very well happen here.


Mark Kindt
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Re: Train danger heads-up

Postby Mark Kindt » Fri Feb 17, 2023 2:17 pm

National Transportation Safety Board

Here is a link to a recent press release on the derailment investigation:

https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-release ... 30214.aspx


Mark Kindt
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Re: Train danger heads-up

Postby Mark Kindt » Fri Feb 17, 2023 2:28 pm

U.S. Environmental Protection Agency - On Scene Coordinator

Here is a recent EPA update on recent sampling related to the derailment:

https://response.epa.gov/site/site_prof ... e_id=15933


Dan Alaimo
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Re: Train danger heads-up

Postby Dan Alaimo » Fri Feb 17, 2023 6:40 pm

pj bennett wrote:
Dan Alaimo wrote:Jon Srewart is on it. Local representatives, not so much.
https://youtu.be/O8Jrk6fvmQ8

Partially at fault, Civil War-era brakes on the trains.


Thank you for posting this link, Dan.

I watched it from beginning to end and was impressed with the folks, who were a part of the discussion.

Interesting to learn, that the train, and others, have been running with Civil War era brakes. And then, there’s the politics involved. Sickening.

I hope everyone takes the time to watch this, because this disaster could very well happen here.


I'd say that unless the problems are addressed, it WILL happen again, and quite possibly here - Lakewood and western 'burbs.

There's a lot of national coverage of this now.


“Never let a good crisis go to waste." - Winston Churchill (Quote later appropriated by Rahm Emanuel)
Dan Alaimo
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Re: Train danger heads-up

Postby Dan Alaimo » Fri Feb 17, 2023 11:30 pm

The latest reporting is that the train traveled through Cleveland and its western suburbs before heading south to East Palestine.

It may have passed a dozen houses from my former Lakewood residence and a few feet from where I regularly walked my dogs.


“Never let a good crisis go to waste." - Winston Churchill (Quote later appropriated by Rahm Emanuel)
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Jim O'Bryan
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Re: Train danger heads-up

Postby Jim O'Bryan » Sat Feb 18, 2023 11:15 am

Dan Alaimo wrote:The latest reporting is that the train traveled through Cleveland and its western suburbs before heading south to East Palestine.

It may have passed a dozen houses from my former Lakewood residence and a few feet from where I regularly walked my dogs.


Dan

It would seem there are a couple real issues here, besides transportation of dangerous materials through residential areas.

Decades ago railroad companies no longer needed cabooses, after a deal was struck with the union to no lay off any caboose personal but to let them retire when they wanted. This allowed cabooses to be phased out at such a slow speed very few ever even noted. This would have provided someone to see the sparks and fires that some claim were going for an hour.

If it had been burning for an hour, that means it was certainly smoking on its run through Cleveland.

I have been told that the train passed down through Brook Park rails not up here. That could have still effected everyone.

I am also talking to people about legislation allowing railroad companies to phase out their automatic emergency bake systems a couple years ago, and that, might have sensed the issue and stopped the train.

Haven't seen any railroad people in East Palestine, which leads me to believe its bad.

.


Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident

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