LAKEWOOD OBSERVER (Observably not objective)

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steve fecser

LAKEWOOD OBSERVER (Observably not objective)

Postby steve fecser » Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:38 pm

Is there anyone on the L.O. contributing staff of amateur hack cheerleaders that can write anything remotely objective about lakewood? Is there a subversive attempt to brainwash readers to believe that we are living in some kind of Shangri-la? (awards, ceremonies, accolades, distinctions). Why would an essay contest for 4th graders bear the title "Why I love Lakewood"? Why not "What I think about Lakewood"? Man!! talk about mind control and social engineering, yeah, start working on those malleable young minds and in no time you'll hatch the next generation of Lakewood Observer contributing staff writers.

How about some objective journalism with all that cheerleading? The 2010 census results are in; I wonder how many residents have left this vibrant city in the last 10 years? I wonder why there has been a steady increase of low income minority section 8 housing in Lakewood? Hmm...could there be a connection? Now i see why there is a need for a monitored hoops program. It's not all good, there is the bad and the ugly that needs to be recognized and reported. Perhaps the only civically responsible thing for me to do is volunteer my objective viewpoints and observations and become a L.O. contributing staff writer. At least you would get the other side of the story.

Ho Ho Ho....


Bryan Schwegler
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Re: LAKEWOOD OBSERVER (Observably not objective)

Postby Bryan Schwegler » Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:47 pm

Have you written any of these articles to be published in the Observer? You're aware this is a citizen journalism project...meaning you can write and submit things.

Until you've done that, not so sure you should be so bitter.

Merry Christmas, and enjoy your time in Lakewood.

As an aside, I'm glad there's so much positive to write about in this great city that so many citizens have content to write about. It's a breath of fresh air to some of the overly negative, completely out of context, and often not always factually correct alternatives out there.


Heidi Hilty
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Re: LAKEWOOD OBSERVER (Observably not objective)

Postby Heidi Hilty » Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:33 am

Thank you, Bryan.


"from the moment we open our eyes,
there is beauty to behold."
steve fecser

Re: LAKEWOOD OBSERVER (Observably not objective)

Postby steve fecser » Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:52 pm

Bryan Schwegler wrote:Have you written any of these articles to be published in the Observer? You're aware this is a citizen journalism project...meaning you can write and submit things.

Until you've done that, not so sure you should be so bitter.

Merry Christmas, and enjoy your time in Lakewood.

As an aside, I'm glad there's so much positive to write about in this great city that so many citizens have content to write about. It's a breath of fresh air to some of the overly negative, completely out of context, and often not always factually correct alternatives out there.


I am aware that L.O. is a citizen journalism project and am contemplating submissions for publication should I feel compelled or inspired to do so. I'm not sure what being bitter has to do with posting a comment online vs. submitting an article for publication but there must be some veiled logic in your presumtion. I will anxiously await clarification and edification of how and when you think I should feel.

Do so kindly provide me with a current list of the overly negative, completely out of context, and often not always factually correct alternatives that you speak of, I'm an avid reader.

Since I do not subscribe to the constructs or tenants of fundamental Christian Judeo ideaology, I will not have a merry christmas, but will certainly enjoy my time on this planet and in this universe.

۞۞۞۞


steve fecser

Re: LAKEWOOD OBSERVER (Observably not objective)

Postby steve fecser » Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:44 pm

Bryan Schwegler wrote:Look forward to reading your articles.

Have a great day.


I wrote an article and submitted to LO for publication before the deadline.

If the article doesn't appear in the upcoming issue or the one after that, I will attempt to

post it in the online forum. Since it is not a "cheerleading" article about Lakewood, I

sincerely doubt it will be published in print.

So much for objectivity and freedom of the press.


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Jim O'Bryan
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Re: LAKEWOOD OBSERVER (Observably not objective)

Postby Jim O'Bryan » Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:28 am

steve fecser wrote:
Bryan Schwegler wrote:Look forward to reading your articles.

Have a great day.


I wrote an article and submitted to LO for publication before the deadline.

If the article doesn't appear in the upcoming issue or the one after that, I will attempt to

post it in the online forum. Since it is not a "cheerleading" article about Lakewood, I

sincerely doubt it will be published in print.

So much for objectivity and freedom of the press.



Steve

Freedom of the press? Do you even understand it?

I would suggest you go back and READ some of the papers, and the Deck.

Cheerleading?

This project is not about "Objectivity" what this project is about is that everyone has bias,
even "real reporters." So after decades of dealing with "real reporters" some of us got
together to give Lakewood a place for residents, businesses, non-profits, schools, and
even city hall a place to have a voice, without the many filters of "real media." To help
rebuild the art of discussion and communication. Claim your bias, so that at least we can
try to understand your project, issues, ideas, thoughts.

So my love and thoughts of Lakewood, are every bit as welcomed as your vendetta against
this project, and 5/3rd Bank.

While your completely baseless attack stuns me. I welcome your posts and the chance to
answer you in public, in a forum where others can weigh in. As they have.

Thank you for the words, the column inches, and I am sure the apology to the staff that
will soon follow.

peace


Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident

"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg

"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
steve fecser

Re: LAKEWOOD OBSERVER (Observably not objective)

Postby steve fecser » Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:04 pm

Jim O'Bryan wrote:
steve fecser wrote:
Bryan Schwegler wrote:Look forward to reading your articles.

Have a great day.


I wrote an article and submitted to LO for publication before the deadline.

If the article doesn't appear in the upcoming issue or the one after that, I will attempt to

post it in the online forum. Since it is not a "cheerleading" article about Lakewood, I

sincerely doubt it will be published in print.

So much for objectivity and freedom of the press.



Steve

Freedom of the press? Do you even understand it?

I would suggest you go back and READ some of the papers, and the Deck.

Cheerleading?

This project is not about "Objectivity" what this project is about is that everyone has bias,
even "real reporters." So after decades of dealing with "real reporters" some of us got
together to give Lakewood a place for residents, businesses, non-profits, schools, and
even city hall a place to have a voice, without the many filters of "real media." To help
rebuild the art of discussion and communication. Claim your bias, so that at least we can
try to understand your project, issues, ideas, thoughts.

So my love and thoughts of Lakewood, are every bit as welcomed as your vendetta against
this project, and 5/3rd Bank.

While your completely baseless attack stuns me. I welcome your posts and the chance to
answer you in public, in a forum where others can weigh in. As they have.

Thank you for the words, the column inches, and I am sure the apology to the staff that
will soon follow.

peace


Jim,

Yes, I believe I do understand freedom of the press, but since you are the publisher maybe you have been blessed with some divine difinitive interpretation. Perhaps "His Holiness" has been helping.

The Pollyannaish stories and articles I've read in the LO newspaper (awards, accolades, ceremonies, distinctions etc.) appear to serve a need, for many, to confirm, reinforce and validate the idea that Lakewood is a great place to live. From 1990 to 2010 around 10,000 people are now known as former Lakewood residents, which seems to strain the "great place to live" theory. No opinion, just facts.

I would think that part of a publishers responsibility would be to ensure that content is fair and balanced. I'm sure I'm not the only person who writes articles/stories that aren't "nice"; like the mean story I wrote about 5/3rd Bank. Had 5/3rd been a LO advertiser, would you still have published my op-ed? or would conflict of interest been
cited?

Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to express my opinions and if the staff are offended, may I remind them........

If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it.


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Jim O'Bryan
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Re: LAKEWOOD OBSERVER (Observably not objective)

Postby Jim O'Bryan » Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:20 pm

Steve

You are simply missing the entire point of this project. Entirely, and have it completely
wrong. But you have inspired me to write for the paper about what the Observer is.

Not sure it maters in this discussion but..
So you are telling me, the 4th Estate has no bias?

Or are you telling me that only certain people can claim to be 4th Estate? That once
you retire, or are still in school, or do it part time or just as a freelancer is no longer
considered part of the 4th Estate?

That professional writers are better are superior when told what to write by an editor
about something they either have ZERO knowledge about or care about, or worse
yet, their very careers depended on? Than a retired professional, that is doing it in their
because of their love of writing, or as a hobby, or even for pay? That the person that
was involved in the story, could NEVER tell that story better than through a person
that woke up late with a hangover, fought with his wife, arrived 2 hours late, and has
15 minutes write and file the story could ever do?

Just curious.


Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident

"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg

"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Bret Callentine
Posts: 570
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:18 pm
Location: Lakewood

Re: LAKEWOOD OBSERVER (Observably not objective)

Postby Bret Callentine » Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:45 am

As far as I know, or have witnessed, the Observer has only one real rule of thumb... You write it and they'll print it.

If the paper appears to have a slant in any one direction, it is only because more people who represent that particular frame of mind write and submit stories.

Four years ago, I personally challenged Jim with my suspicion that he would not print articles with a conservative slant. Four years and almost 100 articles later, I have yet to have EVEN A SINGLE ARTICLE shelved, suspiciously edited, or even questioned. And I HAVE attacked Observer advertisers and supporters.

Despite all of that, I have received nothing but support from the entire Observer staff.

So, speaking from personal experience, I'm not sure what you are so upset about.


"I met with Bret one on one and found him impossible to deal with." - S.K.
Heather Ramsey
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Re: LAKEWOOD OBSERVER (Observably not objective)

Postby Heather Ramsey » Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:07 am

Bret,
Glad you don't find my editing suspicious. Hopefully Steve didn't either.

steve fecser wrote:Jim,

The Pollyannaish stories and articles I've read in the LO newspaper (awards, accolades, ceremonies, distinctions etc.) appear to serve a need, for many, to confirm, reinforce and validate the idea that Lakewood is a great place to live. From 1990 to 2010 around 10,000 people are now known as former Lakewood residents, which seems to strain the "great place to live" theory. No opinion, just facts.
...
Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to express my opinions and if the staff are offended, may I remind them.........


Whether or not a city is a great place to live IS an opinion either way and many of us enjoy living in Lakewood whether the population is what it was 20 years ago or not. I'm not sure what type of coverage of life here you'd like to see, but I'm certainly not going to volunteer my time to find bad things about the city to write about when I can much more easily help people share what they are doing that is good. The LO is far from perfect, as is Lakewood, but there's no reason to dwell on what's wrong with it instead of working on improving it.


steve fecser

Re: LAKEWOOD OBSERVER (Observably not objective)

Postby steve fecser » Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:14 pm

Jim O'Bryan wrote:Steve

You are simply missing the entire point of this project. Entirely, and have it completely
wrong. But you have inspired me to write for the paper about what the Observer is.

Not sure it maters in this discussion but..
So you are telling me, the 4th Estate has no bias?

Or are you telling me that only certain people can claim to be 4th Estate? That once
you retire, or are still in school, or do it part time or just as a freelancer is no longer
considered part of the 4th Estate?

That professional writers are better are superior when told what to write by an editor
about something they either have ZERO knowledge about or care about, or worse
yet, their very careers depended on? Than a retired professional, that is doing it in their
because of their love of writing, or as a hobby, or even for pay? That the person that
was involved in the story, could NEVER tell that story better than through a person
that woke up late with a hangover, fought with his wife, arrived 2 hours late, and has
15 minutes write and file the story could ever do?

Just curious.


Ok, maybe I didn't have a precise understanding of the Lakewood Observer project but the Pollyannaish bias is still glaring.

The 4th Estate is indeed bias, more or less, as we are all human beings and subject to a constant myriad of influences which affect the way we think, feel and believe.

Since the Lakewood Observer is not the New York Times or the Wall Street Journal and does not employ paid professionals or operate within the parameters of common journalistic guidelines, I will retract all the meanspirited or otherwise inappropriate comments that I made about LO contributing staff writers.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Journalism will kill you, but it will keep you alive while you're at it.

--Horace Greeley


steve fecser

Re: LAKEWOOD OBSERVER (Observably not objective)

Postby steve fecser » Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:54 pm

Heather Ramsey wrote:Bret,
Glad you don't find my editing suspicious. Hopefully Steve didn't either.

steve fecser wrote:Jim,

[color=#4000FF]The Pollyannaish stories and articles I've read in the LO newspaper (awards, accolades, ceremonies, distinctions etc.) appear to serve a need, for many, to confirm, reinforce and validate the idea that Lakewood is a great place to live. From 1990 to 2010 around 10,000 people are now known as former Lakewood residents, which seems to strain the "great place to live" theory. No opinion, just facts.
...
Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to express my opinions and if the staff are offended, may I remind them.........
[/color]

Whether or not a city is a great place to live IS an opinion either way and many of us enjoy living in Lakewood whether the population is what it was 20 years ago or not. I'm not sure what type of coverage of life here you'd like to see, but I'm certainly not going to volunteer my time to find bad things about the city to write about when I can much more easily help people share what they are doing that is good. The LO is far from perfect, as is Lakewood, but there's no reason to dwell on what's wrong with it instead of working on improving it.


Heather,

Yes, that is very nice, however it's not the good things that harm you. I could have writen a lovely story about growing up in Lakewood; youth sports, recreational activities, swimming at Lakewood park, Detroit theatre, Winterhurst, (when it was an open air rink)
the proximity to the metroparks.....but I chose instead to write about something that involved a lakewood business that had caused me harm, not necessarily because I have a personal vendetta against 5/3 Bank, as was inferred but because I believed the truth about how 5/3 operates could help others avoid becoming victims, sort of a public service announcement. It's not about dwelling on what's wrong. It's about recognizing what's wrong and dwelling on a solution.

And yes, I was wondering about the editing. Was it done to conserve space?


Christopher Bindel
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Re: LAKEWOOD OBSERVER (Observably not objective)

Postby Christopher Bindel » Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:01 am

First of all, if you are upset a point of view and it is not being presented, write about it and submit it. If you wont do it, no one else will.

Second, I take the fact that you think there are no unbiased articles in the observer personally. Every article I write for the observer on City Council I do my damnedest to keep unbiased. It is true everyone has there own opinions and bias, but it is not my job to share that with everyone. I just want to keep everyone up to date on what is happening in our city government. If you think you see any bias in any of my articles (that is from me and not the point of view presented by the officials being covered) please point it out to me. If it is indeed there I will do my best to correct it in the future.


steve fecser

Re: LAKEWOOD OBSERVER (Observably not objective)

Postby steve fecser » Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:07 pm

Christopher Bindel wrote:First of all, if you are upset a point of view and it is not being presented, write about it and submit it. If you wont do it, no one else will.

Second, I take the fact that you think there are no unbiased articles in the observer personally. Every article I write for the observer on City Council I do my damnedest to keep unbiased. It is true everyone has there own opinions and bias, but it is not my job to share that with everyone. I just want to keep everyone up to date on what is happening in our city government. If you think you see any bias in any of my articles (that is from me and not the point of view presented by the officials being covered) please point it out to me. If it is indeed there I will do my best to correct it in the future.


►►►"Second, I take the fact that you think there are no unbiased articles in the observer personally."◄◄◄

If you are writing an article on City Council, ie: the minutes from a council meeting, you are essentially just reporting the facts. It's not a commentary or an op-ed and shouldn't include personal bias.

Although I never accused you of having a personal bias in your city council articles, I will use a keen eye when reading your next piece. ۞



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