Have you seen this in the Scene

Forum strictly about development, urban planning, community programs ideas, and discussions about cities around the world and what they are doing right.

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Bryan Schwegler
Posts: 963
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:23 pm
Location: Lakewood

Re: Have you seen this in the Scene

Postby Bryan Schwegler » Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:32 am

Bill Call wrote:The Port Authority is subsidized by County property taxes. The County Commissioners appoint some members of the Port Board.

Tri-C receives about 30% of its budget from County wide property taxes.

The Arts are subsidized by a County wide sales tax.

The Airport is a City of Cleveland operation.


All of that is true, except here's the issue...the county executive would have very little, if any, control over the tax money or administration of those organizations. The closest he could get would be around the Port, only through the few board appointments.

Tri-C, Cuyahoga Arts and Culture, and the Port all receive earmarked tax dollars from individual tax levys, they are not subject to the approval or whim of the current Commissioners or the future Executive and Council.

I think it's a very good thing that Tri-C and CAC are not going to be pawns in the political game. The Port is a different story and probably needs more oversight.

The Airport, as you stated, is owned by the city.

So I'm unsure as to why you think the County Executive will have any influence over any of these institutions?


Bryan Schwegler
Posts: 963
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:23 pm
Location: Lakewood

Re: Have you seen this in the Scene

Postby Bryan Schwegler » Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:34 am

Grace O'Malley wrote:CSU is thriving as never before. How you can say they are failing is beyond me.


Because, if you've read enough of Bill's posts you'll notice a trend that you can never let facts get in the way of a good obfuscation and misrepresentation of the truth. ;)

It's all about the show.

I will say that I appreciate what Bill does, he gets a conversation going which is a great thing...they often need to happen. But sometimes his methods leave a lot to be desired. :D


Bryan Schwegler
Posts: 963
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:23 pm
Location: Lakewood

Re: Have you seen this in the Scene

Postby Bryan Schwegler » Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:39 am

Bill Call wrote:I'm working on it. I'm waiting for CSU to release their enrollment for the year.
/

CSU just released this...

http://www.csuohio.edu/news/releases/2010/09/14840.html
CSU Reports 18-Year Enrollment High While Admitting Most Academically Competitive Class on Record

Cleveland State University first-day fall enrollment reached an 18-year high with 17,204 students, while setting new academic standards for first-year students. The enrollment result represents a 13 percent increase in new undergraduates and a 19 percent increase in new graduate students.


Doesn't sound like their falling behind to me.

Oh and I'm assuming you've heard about the CSU/NEOUCOM partnership bringing a medical school to CSU's campus?

http://www.csuohio.edu/offices/advancem ... oucom.html


Bill Call
Posts: 3198
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:10 pm

Re: Have you seen this in the Scene

Postby Bill Call » Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:25 pm

Bryan Schwegler wrote:Doesn't sound like their falling behind to me.

Oh and I'm assuming you've heard about the CSU/NEOUCOM partnership bringing a medical school to CSU's campus?

http://www.csuohio.edu/offices/advancem ... oucom.html



It depends on your definition of the word fail.

CSU's graduation rate is at the very low end :

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindeal ... xml&coll=2

According to this site the graduation rate at CSU is 31%. I wouldn't call that succeding. Unless the goal is to enroll of bunch of Freshman, collect the tuitions and State aid and call it a day.

Of course the whole college bubble is another subject:

http://www.examiner.com/investing-in-ba ... e-to-burst


http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/polit ... 80809.html

Here are other graduation rates:

University of Akron is 34%

Ohio State main campus is 74%.

Baldwin Wallace in 51%.

The national average is around 54%.

By fail I (mostly) mean a failure to provide a center of job creation and innovation. CSU graduates a lot of business majors, urban studies majors etc. Creating those synergies is a lot to ask. Most other colleges don't do that either. But that was one of the hopes when the University was founded in the 1960's. I suppose it is also a failure of the political class.

The University of Akron is doing a better job at building an endowment and business synergies than CSU.

Of course I would also fault Case. It does a great job at educating the technological class but the first thing the graduates do when the get the dipoloma is get a ticket out of town.

To some extent the hundreds of millions we spend on higher education at Tri-C and CSU trains the work force of Colorado, Texas and North Carolina. I would call that failure.

My posts all tie together in the sense that I am bemoaning Cuyahoga County's decline and its failure to compete.

If you can answer this riddle you will discover how to change that:

Is the economic engine the organization that pays the subsidy or the organization that needs the subsidy to survive?


Will Brown
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Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:56 am
Location: Lakewood

Re: Have you seen this in the Scene

Postby Will Brown » Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:17 pm

I think few colleges keep many of their graduates in the local area. How many Eli's are hanging around the campus after graduation? And in any event, I think we outlawed slavery and indentiture.

So the reason we would want to subsidize a college would be because of the economic activity they cause (professors and custodians pay taxes and buy homes), the prestige of having such institutions, the convenience to our children of having a college experience they can afford, and the cultural activities they bring to the community, such as a winning football or basketball team. Granted, our local schools have fallen a bit short in some of these areas.

There are places where a higher percentage of graduates stay in the area, but I think that is primarily in the area of technology, where companies have sprung up in some areas, particularly California, partly because of the graduates who want to stay there, but primarily because of the weather and ambience of the area. There isn't a lot we can do with the weather; this will never be a tourist destination. But there is no reason we couldn't attract students by excelling in certain fields, and working to get some form of cooperation between the schools and some new industries. We have to make the best of what we have; perhaps given the large number of homicides we have, a local university could become expert in the field of forensic medicine and attract students that way.

I give credit to the University of Akron; they have improved themselves quite a bit and are enjoying the fruits of that work.

Cleveland State may be making some improvement, but it suffers from being a non-residential school, and from having to fill its seats largely with people who cannot afford to go elsewhere, or who cannot meet admissions standards elsewhere. For example, if you wanted to study music, wouldn't you rather go to CIM, BW, or Oberlin, or even CWRU, if you could, than to CSU?

As for CCC, I think it would be interesting to see how many of their graduates go on to a four-year college; and in fact, how many of them derive any benefit from required courses that are not related to their often vocational objectives. The CCC faculty and administration is very well paid, and I wonder how much we are wasting paying for courses that are perhaps not really needed. It might be a blow to their egos, but I think the market they serve is primarily vocational, and they should be honest about it and call themselves a trade school, and alter their budgets accordingly.

In any event, the citizens, not the politicians, have opted to give some support to CCC. And CSU is state funded. So this is a matter that is largely out of the hands of the local politicians, and someone else is going to have to do the work of improving it.


Society in every state is a blessing, but the Government even in its best state is but a necessary evil...
Grace O'Malley
Posts: 680
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:31 pm

Re: Have you seen this in the Scene

Postby Grace O'Malley » Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:24 am

Why would someone choose CSU over those other institutions? Tuition. Even with financial assistance and scholarships, these are expensive institutions.

CMI 36,000
Oberlin 41,234
BW 27,364
CSU 8,466

CSU has added dorms this year. Euclid Commons has 600 new spaces, Fenn has 483, and Heritage Suites has 148. Certainly not as many as some colleges, but there is a waiting list for rooms at CSU. they are working on changing their perception as a commuter only university and doing a good job at attracting residents.


Bryan Schwegler
Posts: 963
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:23 pm
Location: Lakewood

Re: Have you seen this in the Scene

Postby Bryan Schwegler » Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:49 pm

Will Brown wrote:Cleveland State may be making some improvement, but it suffers from being a non-residential school


I would agree with that, but CSU's entire strategic vision is to change that. Their entire campus master plan is about adding housing and creating a much more "campus-like" atmosphere to move away from being a commuter school.

While I think it's too early to tell if the plan will succeed, I think it's noteworthy that the administration and faculty have recognized that as something they need to change to move forward and grow and are aggressively going after that goal. The master plan itself is pretty inspiring and I'd recommend people should investigate it if you haven't seen or heard about it.


Bill Call
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Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:10 pm

Re: Have you seen this in the Scene

Postby Bill Call » Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:07 am

Bryan Schwegler wrote:I would agree with that, but CSU's entire strategic vision is to change that. Their entire campus master plan is about adding housing and creating a much more "campus-like" atmosphere to move away from being a commuter school.


I think they are on the right path. I only know bits and pieces. What I have seen seems impressive. I think that those plans will help the University become a "resident" University with increased retention and graduation rates. Those efforts will also help preserve and enhance what is left of "Downtown"

While I think that CSU has failed to live up to its vision I think that it is finally on the right track and will ultimately succeed.

CSU's vision compares favorably with that of Tri-C. Rather than build community schools that are accessble to public transportation and near the student population Tri -C is determined to locate its compuses (campi?) in industrial parks along the freeways.



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