Co-Op's Of all Kinds

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Richard Cole
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Postby Richard Cole » Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:41 am

Not wishing to get into the details of by-laws and pseudo governance structures, I do like the ideas and broad concepts initially raised.

Could a group of homeowners collaboratively buy the 32ft ladder and use when needed? Would it be better for a group to buy one snowblower and plough driveways and sidewalks as needed rather than numerous machines being used?

The broad concept of neigborhood cooperatives is appealing. Putting it into practice is tougher.


lisa shaffer-gill
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Postby lisa shaffer-gill » Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:49 am

People do this all the time already. It happens on our street, and I know many others. People borrow and loan snowblowers and lawnmowers, ladders and other tools. It requires that you get out and get to know your neighbors first.


Richard Cole
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Postby Richard Cole » Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:09 am

lisa.shaffergill wrote:People do this all the time already. It happens on our street, and I know many others. People borrow and loan snowblowers and lawnmowers, ladders and other tools. It requires that you get out and get to know your neighbors first.


Lisa - we live on the same street.

Not duplicating tools/machines and working collaboratively with neighbors is a great start to neighborhood upkeep. The borrowing and lending of tools etc. does lead to a neighborhood looking after itself.

Going from the informal "neighborly" concept to a more formal Co-op, which could include cars, bikes etc. is the idea I was trying to get at.


lisa shaffer-gill
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Postby lisa shaffer-gill » Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:36 pm

quote]

Lisa - we live on the same street.

quote]

I do know that! Just pointing out that it already happens quite a bit. Keep us in mind if you do need a ladder.


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Jim O'Bryan
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Postby Jim O'Bryan » Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:58 pm

Richard Cole wrote:Going from the informal "neighborly" concept to a more formal Co-op, which could include cars, bikes etc. is the idea I was trying to get at.



Richard/Lisa


Would love to speak to you about this. We have been working on an non-food co-op and tool lending "library." Bulk purchases of paint, seed, roofing tiles, etc. Also discount purchases of time from trades people.

Dubbed at this point and time as The Emerald Canyon Co-Op, our efforts are to make sure we do not step on the toes of merchants that sell the same items.

It was slated for Madison Avenue, but do to some recent conflicts it could be headed more towards the center of town on Detroit.

.


Jim O'Bryan
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"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
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Brad Hutchison
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Postby Brad Hutchison » Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:13 pm

Jim O'Bryan wrote:
Richard Cole wrote:Going from the informal "neighborly" concept to a more formal Co-op, which could include cars, bikes etc. is the idea I was trying to get at.



Richard/Lisa


Would love to speak to you about this. We have been working on an non-food co-op and tool lending "library." Bulk purchases of paint, seed, roofing tiles, etc. Also discount purchases of time from trades people.

Dubbed at this point and time as The Emerald Canyon Co-Op, our efforts are to make sure we do not step on the toes of merchants that sell the same items.

It was slated for Madison Avenue, but do to some recent conflicts it could be headed more towards the center of town on Detroit.

.


That's such a great idea! Especially in a city with a lot of first-time homebuyers that don't have anything (i.e. me, hopefully, soon).


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Jim O'Bryan
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Postby Jim O'Bryan » Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:19 pm

Brad Hutchison wrote:
That's such a great idea! Especially in a city with a lot of first-time homebuyers that don't have anything (i.e. me, hopefully, soon).



Brad


This is another project outlined in the Visionary Alignment for Lakewood.

What we had found out was that we could buy truckloads of paint, shingles, etc. for less than stores. The problem is how do you offer that without hurting the stores like Lakewood Hardware.

This is the fine balance that has to be achieved to make the entire community better off.

FWIW


.


Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident

"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg

"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
lisa shaffer-gill
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Postby lisa shaffer-gill » Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:00 pm

Maybe Lakewood Hardware could be involved on the organizational end. I don't own a buisiness, so I'm not sure about the details of ordering product. Could a buisiness use their contracts with companies to order larger quantities of product, than they might ussually stock in their store, for a larger savings and pass that on to co-op members who say all agreed to buy quantities of paint or pounds of blood meal for their garden plots or a three year supply of furnace fillters? Just throwin' that out there.


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Jim O'Bryan
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Postby Jim O'Bryan » Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:46 am

Lisa

You are quick, it is the solutions we looked at though some violate the contract "Lakewood Hardware" might have with their suppliers.

I put Lakewood Hardware in quotes because there were other stores involved, actually many.

The problem is how to offer low cost alternatives, or even free alternatives while not putting Lakewood businesses out of business.

I love LEAF, however we both know that those are vegetables not being bought at The Bin, or elsewhere. So how does one maintain a balance, provide a service, and be ready to step in?

When I say step in, back to LEAF, two grocery stores closed in the past year. LEAF's original name was "The LO Gourmet Food Security Network." With the key word being SECURITY. How could Lakewood be guaranteed healthy food, in case all went out of business? Right now we hear talk of Giant Eagle closing and moving to W117. That is not healthy for the future of a community.

But you did hit on many items. When we spoke of paint it was allowing "the paint store" to sell the tint, the tarps, the tape and brushes, etc.

Of course some of this could be addressed with community curreny.

.


Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident

"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg

"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
lisa shaffer-gill
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Postby lisa shaffer-gill » Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:15 am

It would be interesting to hear from Nature's Bin about the impact of Leaf on their produce sales. Particularly this year since Leaf has just taken off and they have sold out shares. I would venture to say that a lot of people are eating more giant Zucchini and Boc Choy than they might ordinarily purchase, from anywhere. And, it seems that there would be something of a natural balance. I know that many have purchased plants and seeds from the Bin, and also shopped at the Lakewood Hardware for tools and other gardening supplies that otherwise might not have been purchased.


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Jim O'Bryan
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Postby Jim O'Bryan » Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:38 am

lisa shaffer-gill wrote:It would be interesting to hear from Nature's Bin about the impact of Leaf on their produce sales. Particularly this year since Leaf has just taken off and they have sold out shares. I would venture to say that a lot of people are eating more giant Zucchini and Boc Choy than they might ordinarily purchase, from anywhere. And, it seems that there would be something of a natural balance. I know that many have purchased plants and seeds from the Bin, and also shopped at the Lakewood Hardware for tools and other gardening supplies that otherwise might not have been purchased.



Lisa


This is not an attack on LEAF, LEAF is filling a much needed service. However, many homeowners budget. I would think that SOME of the members of LEAF shop at The Bin. No matter how small the cut, in this day and age it is big. I believe LEAF is up to 300+ members, that is a lot of buying power.

As I say that, Lakewood needed to offer alternatives to the Farmer's Market that held the city for ransom, and to build a secure network of alternatives. LEAF is well on their way to success with that.

However, it gets a little iffy with like Lakewood Hardware. Glenn has provided a great service to Lakewood with his store. The place is busy, and doing well I would believe. However as I have learned with the start of MAMA many businesses at the end of the month are happy with $100 in profit. When you look at the "community" it gets a little tougher.

Some of us met when there was no bookstore in town. The idea was, we all kick in $5,000, start a bookstore, get it up and running and turn it over to Lakewood Residents to own and run. The second Rose Books opened up, the conversation has been shelved, but not forgotten.

Another version that was thought of was Co-Op Discount Cards(community currency is better) Present your card at Slife Heating and Cooling and get the Co-Op price as we bought 2,000 hours in January at a discount. The problems then grew into, the items needed most in Lakewood, Paint, roofing, wood. Only serious conflict is paint. So where does one store, 2 semis of roofing, and 5 yards of lumber? Who pays? Who pays up front? Less that 2 semis, the savings is not big enough to make a difference.

When I look at these models I always go back to when I owned hotdog carts. Cleveland had never put up with them before, and the restaurant owners went nuts. The compromise, I had to have men's and women's bathrooms with double doors, a full stainless steel kitchen, insurance, a "commissary" in Cleveland, accessible directly from the street. What this insured was that I did not have an unfair advantage in business. We also agreed to no closer than 100' of another place to eat.

I know a writer that I often have coffee with in the morning that is outraged at the Lakewood Observer being a Co-Op newspaper. I think you know him too. You might know him from LEAF as well. :wink:

I am not opposed to Co-ops far from it, I have worked hard and supported the efforts of LEAF, and this other project. But to not look at the possible fallout fom the project on the business community is painfully short sited. When we started the Lakewood Observer, we chose not to have conventional classifieds, as that would have been unfair to the Sun and PD.

FWIW


.


Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident

"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg

"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
lisa shaffer-gill
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Postby lisa shaffer-gill » Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:01 am

Outraged, wow. Must be a really intense guy to object so strongly to cooperation. Must be all the coffee.

I agree, Vege sales at the local places are probably less than they would be without the current weekly pick up. And Again, I need to point out my distaste for the way conversations go on a boards like this, where people perceive or convey offense when there is no need because of how difficult it can be to convey tone. This doesn't happen nearly so much in face to face conversations. Yeah, and I just think the emoticons are silly. I didn't take your post as a criticism of Leaf. It's an interesting issue. If there is a way to organize purchasing of goods at a discount, certainly this is the city that can figure it out.


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Jim O'Bryan
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Postby Jim O'Bryan » Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:21 am

lisa shaffer-gill wrote:Outraged, wow. Must be a really intense guy to object so strongly to cooperation. Must be all the coffee.


Possibly a better way to put it would be, extremely supportive of the Lakewood Observer and disappointed over the pay scale. :wink: You know the look, clenches his lower jaw, starts talking like Thurston Howell III only slower and very deliberately.

To me these discussions, are some of the best I have ever had in my life. How to ensure the health of a community, move it forward through either popular consensus or create programs with ZERO negatives.

Madison Avenue Merchants Association, started to fill the gaps, not covered by The Lakewood Chamber of Commerce, not to compete.

A tool library could fill the needs as well. There is not really a "tool seller" and I believe the rental place deals mostly with heavier equipment.

But there are aspects that many overlook and that are needed for them all to succeed. One of those identified very early, was a way to get information out.

Lisa, as always, love kicking it you, mr. grumpy, and all Observers and Lakewoodites.


Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident

"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg

"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
michael gill
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Postby michael gill » Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:20 pm

Hey Richard--do you need a ladder?

I've got one at 24', and another that's taller, though I'm not sure it's as tall as 32. But it might be. I got it from my father in law. You can use either one any time.


Jim DeVito
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Postby Jim DeVito » Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:01 pm

Great!! Perhaps we need a new tool loaning section of the deck. ;-)



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