Can we learn from Youngstown?

[c. dawson]

And not wishing to throw further fuel on the fire, I do have to disagree that if Cleveland continued to decline, that Lakewood could go on without Cleveland. Sorry, but that's just untrue. Lakewood has been, and continues to be, a bedroom community for Cleveland and the surrounding area. All the jobs I've had since I was out of college have been in the city of Cleveland proper, though I've lived in other suburbs. But when I worked downtown for Tri-C, many of my coworkers were from Lakewood. Now I work in University Circle, for one of the big health care institutions, and in my 50-person department, I know at least 7 of them live in Lakewood. We're just one department in a huge institution. I know many of my neighbors in Lakewood also work in Cleveland.

The fact is, Lakewood is home to an awful lot of people who work downtown and in University Circle. They chose Lakewood because it's a great place, but also because it's in close proximity to downtown and University Circle, and they wanted a close commute to work and a close commute to events downtown. And it's been that way through Lakewood's history. People didn't flock to Lakewood because there was work here ... there have been some factories nearby, but not enough to sustain the large population that Lakewood has had for much of the 20th century. No, that population was sustained because so many Lakewood residents actually worked in Cleveland.

If Cleveland really went down the tubes, and a lot of the big companies and employers who are based in Cleveland move out of town ... then you're gonna see a lot of people move out of Lakewood, and then the city will decline, unquestionably.

No Cleveland ... no Lakewood. Like it or not, we're tied to Cleveland's fortunes, as are nearly all of the inner-ring suburbs. The region is a whole, even if there's a lot of people around who would like to put up barriers at their city limits, and we can't just focus on what goes on in our borders, because what goes on in the region affects all of us.

[Paul Schrimpf]

Precisely so, c. dawson. Love it or hate it, the Shoreway is one of Lakewood's greatest assets, and sells a lot of people who work Downtown on living in Lakewood (in addition to other assets of the City).

[Dee Martinez]

If Cleveland really went down the tubes, and a lot of the big companies and employers who are based in Cleveland move out of town ... then you're gonna see a lot of people move out of Lakewood, and then the city will decline, unquestionably.

And of course to a certain extent, that has already happened. You are right that its fantasy to think that we dont catch cold when Cleveland sneezes.

Irony is we would probably have more control over our destiny if we were in the middle of Brown County or somewhere like that

[Jim O'Bryan]

OK

Let me try this again.

If we construct a future for Lakewood, without counting on Cleveland for anything. Then if Cleveland can actually do something, Lakewood is better off.


Does that make sense?


Tonight I am moving this thread to Urban Dynamics board.


.

[Dee Martinez]

OK

Let me try this again.

If we construct a future for Lakewood, without counting on Cleveland for anything. Then if Cleveland can actually do something, Lakewood is better off.


Does that make sense?


.

No, for one very simple reason.

At the very least, you are going to have to count on Cleveland to keep their thugs and criminals ON THEIR SIDE OF THE BORDER.
That hasnt happened yet, and I have yet to hear a realistic proposal as to how that does happen.

Either that or you build a very, very high wall.

[Jim DeVito]

OK

Let me try this again.

If we construct a future for Lakewood, without counting on Cleveland for anything. Then if Cleveland can actually do something, Lakewood is better off.


Does that make sense?


.

No, for one very simple reason.

At the very least, you are going to have to count on Cleveland to keep their thugs and criminals ON THEIR SIDE OF THE BORDER.
That hasnt happened yet, and I have yet to hear a realistic proposal as to how that does happen.

Either that or you build a very, very high wall.

No we just have to make it be known that the "thugery" will not be tolerated on our streets no matter what side of the border you come from.
In fact in refrence to another thread it seems we are makeing that statment.

[Dee Martinez]

No we just have to make it be known that the "thugery" will not be tolerated on our streets no matter what side of the border you come from.
In fact in refrence to another thread it seems we are makeing that statment.

Sounds great but if talking tough were all it took every place would be crime free.
Im just looking at reality. We share two borders with a very poor and very violent city. How many cops do we need? How many can we afford? Are we going to arrest people pre-emptively? We can arrest everyone who steals a pack of gum but it will still take the county prosecutor who is already overwhelmed to put them in prisons that are already overcrowded.

My repsonse was to Jims premise that we can pretend Cleveland doesnt exist and we have a lake on THREE sides, not just one (actually sometimes I think hed prefer to not have to have a border with River, either and make Lakewood a true island. JK ). Thats where optimism ends and delusion begins.

[Jim DeVito]

Actually Dee. A buddy and I were talking about this at work today. I would prefer to split the country in two. The top half and Canada will be come North North america. The bottom half and Mexico will become South North america. There will be a 100 mile no go zone in the middle. Then we can keep our military out of needless wars by sending all down to the no go zone to stand there and stare at each other. Much like the Koreans. Then after all that just to appease the nay sayers and negative thinkers. We will (with the help of the Canadians for some reason) dig a giant moat around all of lake wood. Let the lake water fill it up and the put Tigers and Zombies in the middle of it to keep all the 14 year gang bangers out.

Have a good one all!!

[Bill Call]

At the very least, you are going to have to count on Cleveland to keep their thugs and criminals ON THEIR SIDE OF THE BORDER.
That hasnt happened yet, and I have yet to hear a realistic proposal as to how that does happen.

Lakewood's crime problem is not caused by bandits crossing the border to steal your chickens and burn your barn. It's caused by your new neighbor.

Without a housing policy everything else is just buying time.

[chris richards]

perhaps the city of lakewood should look into this organization.

project for public spaces. http://www.pps.org/

[Jim O'Bryan]

Moved from Lakewood discussion



.

[Kenneth Warren]

Speaking of Youngstown, I received a nice surprise note from John Slanina – shoutyoungstown.com.

Last year John invited me to talk about the Lakewood Observer, Lakewood Public Library and the hyper-local dojo for Louie B. Free’s radio show, along with himself, Phil Kidd (Defend Youngstown), Sherry Linkon (YSU's Center for Working Class Studies - http://www.linkonavenue.blogspot.com/) and Hunter Morrison. We actually suggested having road trips with interested people from each city to probe civic practices, explore unique sites and make new friends. The concept is grow the mushroom network of hyper-local enterprises, innovations in the larger regional ecology, savoring the fruits of exchange with learning squads interested in the art of neighborhoods.

Sherry, Phil and John are now all good friends from the Youngstown posse.

I was delighted that the new library made a strong impression on John:

“Today was my first day in Lakewood ever. Had to make your library one of my stops.

This place is awesome. It’s one thing seeing the plans online – and another walking inside of it….â€

[Jim O'Bryan]

[quote="Kenneth Warren"]Speaking of Youngstown, I received a nice surprise note from John Slanina – shoutyoungstown.com.

Last year John invited me to talk about the Lakewood Observer, Lakewood Public Library and the hyper-local dojo for Louie B. Free’s radio show, along with himself, Phil Kidd (Defend Youngstown), Sherry Linkon (YSU's Center for Working Class Studies - http://www.linkonavenue.blogspot.com/) and Hunter Morrison. We actually suggested having road trips with interested people from each city to probe civic practices, explore unique sites and make new friends. The concept is grow the mushroom network of hyper-local enterprises, innovations in the larger regional ecology, savoring the fruits of exchange with learning squads interested in the art of neighborhoods.

Sherry, Phil and John are now all good friends from the Youngstown posse.

I was delighted that the new library made a strong impression on John:

“Today was my first day in Lakewood ever. Had to make your library one of my stops.

This place is awesome. It’s one thing seeing the plans online – and another walking inside of it….â€